Where Did 84 Mpg Come From?

[ThreeWheelBurnin]

Not that amazing.
There've been folks that have approached 90mpg with a few aerodynamic "paneling" mods and simple engine mods on the metro.
Lets compare...
Metro = 1895 lb. curb weight
Elio = 1250 lb curb weight
Did you ever attempt to drive your metro with an additional 645 pounds of passengers with you?
I never did, but I can tell you that with just 380lb of extra passengers with me, the metro acted like it was about to roll over and die and gave up a good 15mpg. Just with two passengers. Not three large ones @ 645 lb. total. With just me in it my metro 3/5 hatchback consistantly got an average of 54mpg.
If you want to think of it in the other direction, imagine what the metro would have performed like if you threw out a third of it's weight.
With the Elio, you're talking the same basic HP in a vehicle that's 645lb lighter, not to mention that it's probably got at least 40% less frontal surface than the old metro, a more efficient fuel injected 55 Horses (less fuel, same horses), and a body that's being specifically designed to be as areodynamic as possible.

Now I'm wondering if I'm going to have to lose weight in order to get the 84mpg!

 

[Mark Ambrose]

Paul said he was adamant about keeping the cost at $6,800 and the mpg at 84. They can already achieve the 84 mpg, however because of the way the EPA tests the cars for the mileage estimate to include hills, etc the company is working hard to get that 84 mpg number slapped on the EPA sticker. If Paul wasn't trying hard enough to keep his promise I can hear the howling now..."you promised me 84 mpg! This piece of s**t only gets 80! I got ripped off!" You know there will be those who will complain about that. There are those who will complain about it regardless of how it turns out.

 

[Jambe]

Testing of cars is done with a special gasoline which we can't buy and it does not include ethanol. Ethanol-free gasoline (E0) is rarely available so you will be lucky to get 80 mpg even if Elio gets its goal of 84 mpg.

 

[Jeff Miller]

Testing of cars is done with a special gasoline which we can't buy and it does not include ethanol. Ethanol-free gasoline (E0) is rarely available so you will be lucky to get 80 mpg even if Elio gets its goal of 84 mpg.

I can't confirm this special fuel but I do agree that ethanol does not have the same energy as gas without it.

However, the 84 mpg was based on going highway speeds with air conditioning on. I believe the highway speeds being speced were 65 mph. It seems to me that if you can be happy driving without the a/c on and at 55 mph that you should easily blow well past 84 mpg even if you do have to run ethanol.

This is of course all speculation.

 

[Snick]

Testing of cars is done with a special gasoline which we can't buy and it does not include ethanol. Ethanol-free gasoline (E0) is rarely available so you will be lucky to get 80 mpg even if Elio gets its goal of 84 mpg.

One of the things we can admire about Elio Motors is that they understand real world fuel, which is why they are optimizing the intake, ports, valves, and combustion chamber design to be knock tolerant. I do not know for certain, but I am hoping they have a modern engine management system that listens to the knock sensor and adjusts BOTH injection and fuel timing maps to get the optimal torque. Ethanol blends raise the effective knock resistance, so a well set up engine mapping can take good advantage of that with advanced spark timing and optimal injection timing and duration. That equals optimal fuel economy.

I dose my car's fuel with isopropyl alcohol/water blend to raise effective knock resistance. It works and saves me a ton on not having to buy premium grade. When I don't dose it, I can hear the car on the verge/onset of knock regime and mpg drops by 10% as it retards spark timing to try and compensate (in 105 degree heat it doesn't work so well). With the dosing, I get 33mpg and zero knock.

I really don't think with the Elio's weight and aerodynamics that knock will be much of a problem, but I will install a water injection system anyway, as I think there are many other benefits to emissions, engine cleanliness, etcetera...

 

[goofyone]

The EPA runs a very informative website, www.fueleconomy.gov, which lists all the current US fuel economy ratings, has detailed information on the actual testing, and a pretty good FAQ section which as was mentioned earlier does confirm that all tests are performed with 100 percent gasoline which would result in about a 3 to 4 percent drop in fuel economy for standard E10 gas which is what most of us use. They even have an explanation for why E10 is not used in testing.

For those interested in more detail on the actual tests this link has graphs and a compariosn of the 5 individual tests which are performed and results combined to make up the EPA standard feul economy rating. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml

 

[AllIn5450]

I do not see a problem with the Elio getting 84 MPG.
I had a 2001 Honda Insight with a 3 cyl, 995 CC, 1.0 L weighing 1878 pounds.
Yes, it was a hybrid, but the hybrid system did not work during normal interstate cruising, it was basically just used for acceleration from stop or under hard demand to help the little engine that thought it could.
I averaged 68 MPG on a trip from Jax, FL to Brunswick, GA and back.
I averaged over the life of the car 52 MPG total.
The Elio is lighter, has less drag, and has a smaller front area.
It should have no problem.

 

[elio now]

not be negative but how does this car get 84mpg when a 350 pound scooter only gets 90 mpg
but im very interested of course in getting one


Moderator Comment: Merged question into existing 84 MPG discussion thread

 

[karl]

Aerodynamics. At highway speeds the most of the power is going to punching a hole in the air. The city number is lower than the scooters.

 

[Neal]

Hi and welcome. I am far from a gear head, so i don't pretend to understand it all. Part of the reason scooters and motorcycles don't get as good gas mileage is aerodynamics. With it being open, there is a lot of wind resistance that greatly reducing the MPG. I'm sure there are elements of the engine as well, but I don't pretend to know enough to speak to it. lol. Anyways, welcome to the forum. I am sure those with more knowledge will chime in soon.