Where Did 84 Mpg Come From?

[Travis Bertram]

My guess is they picked 84mpg because it is a solid goal that stays well above the DOT and DOE high efficiency goal of over 75mpg. Current incentives for DOE loans and federal programs for high efficiency is 75. Why does this matter if ELIO is not actively seeking federal loans? Because a lot of other consumer incentives are tied to the federal number like tax breaks, HOV exemptions, etc. I was able to speak with the Elio rep for federal programs and it was interesting to hear they are not actively seeking federal support, but have been quietly politically positioning themselves to be sought out. Prime example was the visit to DC a few weeks back. They brought the P4 to show to a few key representatives. The result was they were asked to take the P4 over to the Dept of Energy annual ARPA-E conference where Paul ended up spending time with Deputy Secretary Poneman. That was unplanned, unscheduled, and completely on the fly. The P4 ended up at a conference they were not scheduled to be at but was exactly where it needed to be.

 

[Ty]

I think that number did come from the "three times the average fuel economy" of 27.9mpg as earlier stated.

 

[ST13Fred]

As mentioned, 84 is nothing but a (good looking) computer generated #.
My Insight, tested independently, back in 2010 would get 64 MPG when the Econ system stayed 'green' and 29 when flogged,
telling me the car is capable of good mileage, but is no dog and will run hard, but power coming at a price with lower fuel mileage.
Elio would 'average', probably, 50-55 MPG. Some manufacturers have been challenged in court by their #ers. Driving style plays a huge factor in MPG #ers with economy cars.
MPG #ers of cars w/bigger motors are more consistent because they are not revving as high as smaller motors, in effect not 'working' as hard.

 

[Travis Bertram]

I do know one of the reason they want to keep the Elio rated as a motorcycle is to not have to meet the DOT and EPA vehicle guidelines which actually kill gas milage. There are engine and car combinations that have been able to do well over the 50 mpg mark ('90'ish Honda CRX HF comes to mind) but EPA guidelines with petroleum industry lobby have kept mpg down. Motorcycles do not have to follow the same restrictions. Same as the cash rating. It's nice to have, but if would be happy if they scrapped the 5 star to save money and get the thing into production. I am transitioning from a motorcycle, so just about anything will be safer...

 

[ST13Fred]

Having Elio 5-star safety rated is important enough to have, albeit more expensive, IMO a plus in getting to market and generate interest. Cycles are dangerous for a reason.
I'm a lifetime motorcyclist and also would be transitioning (maybe) to Elio. Keeping him cycle rated does have a huge DOT/EPA advantage.

 

[goofyone]

I question the $6800 price target and the 84 mpg goal but not the 5-star safety rating goal. There is a good chance they will sell this vehicle even if they can not reach the price or mpg targets however I would bet they do whatever it takes to meet the 5-star safety standard. The reason why is because if they hope to sell this vehicle to the masses they must go above and beyond in proving that this vehicle is as safe as possible for the average person to own. The average consumer is very different from motorcyclists who accept that riding a motorcycle is an inherently riskier proposition than riding in a car and as such do not care as much how the Elio compares to a standard car in terms of safety as it is inherently much safer than a motorcycle.

 

[ST13Fred]

(consumers)....do not care as much how the Elio compares to a standard car in terms of safety.....

But consumers would ASSUME Elio is as safe as a standard car and if they found out differently, would walk away.
I would think the 5-star would be needed to get past DOT and even wonder if a 'kit' car could be licensed in all 50 states.

 

[ecdriver711]

Isn't 3x27 81?

 

[Inigo93]

Current incentives for DOE loans and federal programs for high efficiency is 75. [...] Because a lot of other consumer incentives are tied to the federal number like tax breaks, HOV exemptions, etc.

Then pushing hard for 75 mpg makes a lot of sense. 84? Not so much.

I was able to speak with the Elio rep for federal programs and it was interesting to hear they are not actively seeking federal support,

That's another red flag in my book (if you cross reference to the "where are they now" thread). Seems to me that a guy with a dream like the Elio who's having difficulty getting funding would be looking at the DOE (or whatever agency would be appropriate) for support. The Elio is politically a wonderful thing to back from the fed perspective. It's already got a working prototype which means that there's already something to show the taxpayer and the risk is comparatively low. Blah blah blah. So why *wouldn't* the want federal backing given their current situation? The only thing that comes to my mind is that you're worried that if you run to Bora Bora with the money of random investors the feds don't chase you as hard as if you run to Bora Bora with *their* money.

 

[goofyone]

Then pushing hard for 75 mpg makes a lot of sense. 84? Not so much.



That's another red flag in my book (if you cross reference to the "where are they now" thread). Seems to me that a guy with a dream like the Elio who's having difficulty getting funding would be looking at the DOE (or whatever agency would be appropriate) for support. The Elio is politically a wonderful thing to back from the fed perspective. It's already got a working prototype which means that there's already something to show the taxpayer and the risk is comparatively low. Blah blah blah. So why *wouldn't* the want federal backing given their current situation? The only thing that comes to my mind is that you're worried that if you run to Bora Bora with the money of random investors the feds don't chase you as hard as if you run to Bora Bora with *their* money.

The problem with this logic is that all the discussion about funding issues is purely speculation. We actually have no direct confirmation about their funding either way. As such their rejection of Federal funding at this point may actually be an indicator that they believe they already have the funding necessary in place. But then again that is also speculation so we are back to dealing with the fact that anyone who truly knows is not talking right now.

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