We Need Cheap, Or Better Still We Need Elio

[Hotscoots]

I think I saw a video where Paul addresses the demographics of reservation holders .

 

[AriLea]

I think I saw a video where Paul addresses the demographics of reservation holders .

Couldn't find it (yet), but, I did find, in May 2014 Paul said;

And think about it one of our core demographics, which is, you know, entry level buyers, they aren’t going to be making reservations, right. They are not in the position to put that kind of money down on something there not going to see for 14 months.

So at that point they did know entry level buyers, a major customer, are under represented.

 

[AriLea]

Couldn't find it (yet), but, I did find, in May 2014 Paul said;
So at that point they did know entry level buyers, a major customer, are under represented.

To add to the data, I snagged this chart, and noted on it where I think our age group (reservation holders) places on the chart (blue), and marked in red where I think the buyer population will expand the most when Elio goes into production.

The big question is, how many in the blue, could increase if sales were not limited to res holders? I'm expecting 3x to get a total(2x+1). Anyway, the chart makes me think there are 3x buyers in the red area (calc as 4x (3x+1) to get total ) for each buyer in the blue. 4x3=12(includes res holders/non holders).
Then you can add fringe areas like fleet sales and 'high-income green' buyers.
I can't prove anything with this, but it does increase my confidence toward the 10:1 ratio.

 

[AriLea]

Another interesting stat blerb...

Indeed, the average income of Chevrolet Volt and Nissan LEAF buyers is about $150,000, compared to $68,000 for all car buyers.

So do you know what such a statistic means? Considering incomes less than $68k (what's yours?), if all incomes need transportation(and they do), there is a population that doesn't feel they can buy a car. And that group is dead center on the Elio sales map.

Anyway, just more food for thought.

 

[karl]

I live in Massachusetts and could not buy an Electric Drive Fiat. I do have a gas powered one. An ED would work for me even in the winter I think. My commute is just 14 miles one way. There is at present no cost savings, just a fell good it seems.

 

[AriLea]

I live in Massachusetts and could not buy an Electric Drive Fiat. I do have a gas powered one. An ED would work for me even in the winter I think. My commute is just 14 miles one way. There is at present no cost savings, just a fell good it seems.

I probably should have made the comparison for luxury vehicles. The EV controversy tends to steal the wind out of all other discussions.

I found this 1997 collection (no EV's).. at http://www.csparks.com/bmw/CarPriceVsIncome.xhtml

Interesting, as you go down the chart, people pay more of their income by percentage. I suppose that's expected. But not a solid variance.

Most Expensive
==============
Make Model Income Price I/P Ratio
--------------------------------------------------------
Ferrari 456 GT $225,000 $224,800 1
Ferrari F355 $150,000 $132,130 1.1
Porsche 911 $138,050 $106,875 1.3
Mercedes-Benz SL-Class $230,000 $101,400 2.3
Mercedes-Benz S-Class $150,000 $98,300 1.5
Acura NSX $140,000 $86,000 1.6
BMW 8-Series $196,000 $85,200 2.3
BMW 7-Series $175,000 $75,975 2.3
Dodge Viper $90,000 $66,000 1.4
Jaguar XJ Sedan $225,000 $60,025 3.7
Lexus LS 400 $215,250 $52,900 4.1
Infiniti Q45 $99,000 $47,900 2.1
Lexus GS 300 $103,125 $45,700 2.3
BMW 5-Series $120,000 $45,425 2.6
Mercedes-Benz E-Class $90,000 $44,900 2
Cadillac Seville $105,000 $42,495 2.5
Mercedes-Benz C-Class $86,500 $41,188 2.1
Acura RL $95,000 $41,000 2.3
Lincoln Town Car $65,250 $40,240 1.6
Cadillac Eldorado $105,000 $39,695 2.6

Least Expensive
===============
Make Model Income Price I/P Ratio
--------------------------------------------------------
Geo Metro $27,750 $9,215 3
Hyundai Accent $29,250 $9,399 3.1
Ford Aspire $31,500 $9,610 3.3
Toyota Tercel $31,500 $11,433 2.8
Dodge Neon $37,500 $11,533 3.3
Saturn SL $43,500 $11,545 3.8
Mitsubishi Mirage $30,000 $11,805 2.5
Hyundai Elantra $30,000 $11,824 2.5
Ford Escort $33,800 $12,080 2.8
Saturn SW $43,500 $12,645 3.4
Hyundai Elantra Wagon $30,000 $12,999 2.3
Geo Prizm $47,000 $13,163 3.6
Honda Civic $42,750 $13,515 3.2
Nissan Sentra $38,250 $13,574 2.8
Mazda Protege $40,500 $13,720 3
Subaru Impreza $41,250 $13,795 3
Toyota Corolla $30,000 $13,821 2.2
Hyundai Tiburon $35,000 $14,199 2.5
Chevrolet Cavalier $26,900 $14,373 1.9
Geo Tracker $50,000 $14,563 3.4

Owners:Highest Income
=====================
Make Model Income Price I/P Ratio
--------------------------------------------------------
Mercedes-Benz SL-Class $230,000 $101,400 2.3
Ferrari 456 GT $225,000 $224,800 1
Jaguar XJ Sedan $225,000 $60,025 3.7
Saab 9000 $225,000 $36,695 6.1
Lexus LS 400 $215,250 $52,900 4.1
BMW 8-Series $196,000 $85,200 2.3
BMW 7-Series $175,000 $75,975 2.3
Ferrari F355 $150,000 $132,130 1.1
Mercedes-Benz S-Class $150,000 $98,300 1.5
Acura NSX $140,000 $86,000 1.6
Porsche 911 $138,050 $106,875 1.3
Toyota Supra $131,500 $34,700 3.8
BMW 5-Series $120,000 $45,425 2.6
Cadillac Eldorado $105,000 $39,695 2.6
Cadillac Seville $105,000 $42,495 2.5
Infiniti I30 $105,000 $30,150 3.5
Lexus GS 300 $103,125 $45,700 2.3
Audi A6 $100,000 $33,400 3
Audi A6 Wagon $100,000 $35,200 2.8
Infiniti J30 $100,000 $35,750 2.8

Owners:Lowest Income
====================
Make Model Income Price I/P Ratio
--------------------------------------------------------
Buick Skylark $26,700 $17,123 1.6
Chevrolet Cavalier $26,900 $14,373 1.9
Geo Metro $27,750 $9,215 3
Hyundai Accent $29,250 $9,399 3.1
Toyota Corolla $30,000 $13,821 2.2
Mitsubishi Mirage $30,000 $11,805 2.5
Hyundai Elantra Wagon $30,000 $12,999 2.3
Hyundai Elantra $30,000 $11,824 2.5
Toyota Tercel $31,500 $11,433 2.8
Ford Aspire $31,500 $9,610 3.3
Pontiac Sunfire $32,250 $15,479 2.1
Mazda MPV $32,250 $25,995 1.2
Buick Century $33,000 $18,553 1.8
Ford Escort $33,800 $12,080 2.8
Oldsmobile Achieva $34,000 $16,100 2.1
Hyundai Tiburon $35,000 $14,199 2.5
Chevrolet Monte Carlo $35,250 $18,695 1.9
Chevrolet Lumina $35,250 $18,195 1.9
Hyundai Sonata $37,500 $16,649 2.3
Dodge Neon $37,500 $11,533 3.3

Owners:Most Frugal
==================
Make Model Income Price I/P Ratio
--------------------------------------------------------
Saab 9000 $225,000 $36,695 6.1
Jeep Wrangler $75,000 $16,340 4.6
Lexus LS 400 $215,250 $52,900 4.1
Toyota Supra $131,500 $34,700 3.8
Saturn SL $43,500 $11,545 3.8
Jaguar XJ Sedan $225,000 $60,025 3.7
Geo Prizm $47,000 $13,163 3.6
Infiniti I30 $105,000 $30,150 3.5
Geo Tracker $50,000 $14,563 3.4
Saturn SW $43,500 $12,645 3.4
Lexus ES 300 $99,000 $29,900 3.3
Dodge Neon $37,500 $11,533 3.3
Ford Aspire $31,500 $9,610 3.3
Buick Riviera $95,000 $30,110 3.2
Toyota Celica $67,500 $20,808 3.2
Ford Probe $50,000 $15,605 3.2
Honda Civic $42,750 $13,515 3.2
Hyundai Accent $29,250 $9,399 3.1
Audi A6 $100,000 $33,400 3
Audi A4 $79,000 $26,010 3

Owners:Least Frugal
===================
Make Model Income Price I/P Ratio
--------------------------------------------------------
Ferrari 456 GT $225,000 $224,800 1
Ferrari F355 $150,000 $132,130 1.1
Mazda MPV $32,250 $25,995 1.2
Porsche 911 $138,050 $106,875 1.3
Buick Park Avenue $45,000 $32,495 1.4
Dodge Viper $90,000 $66,000 1.4
Mercedes-Benz S-Class $150,000 $98,300 1.5
Buick Skylark $26,700 $17,123 1.6
Oldsmobile Silhouette $38,400 $23,680 1.6
Lincoln Town Car $65,250 $40,240 1.6
Acura NSX $140,000 $86,000 1.6
Mercury Grand Marquis $40,000 $23,213 1.7
Subaru SVX $56,300 $33,435 1.7
Infiniti QX4 $60,750 $35,550 1.7
Buick Century $33,000 $18,553 1.8
Chevrolet Venture $38,400 $21,312 1.8
Ford Taurus $40,000 $22,228 1.8
Ford Crown Victoria $40,500 $22,435 1.8
Dodge Caravan $41,250 $23,318 1.8
Buick LeSabre $42,750 $23,790 1.8

 

[BlioKart]

I will probably not own a fully electric car in my lifetime . Nothing to do with my net worth but "The Nuisance factor "is too high ..

- Short range
- Expensive drive train replacements
- Expensive purchase price ( Volt , glorified Malibu for $45k)
- Lack of adequate charging stations
- Lack of adequate maintenance mechanics

No nuisance factor here except for the high price which eventually a more affordable model will be available. This isn't a electric go kart or a pos chinese electric death trap. Ever increasing supercharger network. Virtually no maintenance required only a suggested yearly inspection. More than adequate range with fast free charging at supercharger stations. Id have one of these in a heart beat(having the $)

 

[karl]

I probably should have made the comparison for luxury vehicles. The EV controversy tends to steal the wind out of all other discussions.

I found this 1997 collection (no EV's).. at http://www.csparks.com/bmw/CarPriceVsIncome.xhtml

Interesting, as you go down the chart, people pay more of their income by percentage. I suppose that's expected. But not a solid variance.

Most Expensive
==============
Make Model Income Price I/P Ratio
--------------------------------------------------------
Ferrari 456 GT $225,000 $224,800 1
Ferrari F355 $150,000 $132,130 1.1
Porsche 911 $138,050 $106,875 1.3
Mercedes-Benz SL-Class $230,000 $101,400 2.3
Mercedes-Benz S-Class $150,000 $98,300 1.5
Acura NSX $140,000 $86,000 1.6
BMW 8-Series $196,000 $85,200 2.3
BMW 7-Series $175,000 $75,975 2.3
Dodge Viper $90,000 $66,000 1.4
Jaguar XJ Sedan $225,000 $60,025 3.7
Lexus LS 400 $215,250 $52,900 4.1
Infiniti Q45 $99,000 $47,900 2.1
Lexus GS 300 $103,125 $45,700 2.3
BMW 5-Series $120,000 $45,425 2.6
Mercedes-Benz E-Class $90,000 $44,900 2
Cadillac Seville $105,000 $42,495 2.5
Mercedes-Benz C-Class $86,500 $41,188 2.1
Acura RL $95,000 $41,000 2.3
Lincoln Town Car $65,250 $40,240 1.6
Cadillac Eldorado $105,000 $39,695 2.6

Least Expensive
===============
Make Model Income Price I/P Ratio
--------------------------------------------------------
Geo Metro $27,750 $9,215 3
Hyundai Accent $29,250 $9,399 3.1
Ford Aspire $31,500 $9,610 3.3
Toyota Tercel $31,500 $11,433 2.8
Dodge Neon $37,500 $11,533 3.3
Saturn SL $43,500 $11,545 3.8
Mitsubishi Mirage $30,000 $11,805 2.5
Hyundai Elantra $30,000 $11,824 2.5
Ford Escort $33,800 $12,080 2.8
Saturn SW $43,500 $12,645 3.4
Hyundai Elantra Wagon $30,000 $12,999 2.3
Geo Prizm $47,000 $13,163 3.6
Honda Civic $42,750 $13,515 3.2
Nissan Sentra $38,250 $13,574 2.8
Mazda Protege $40,500 $13,720 3
Subaru Impreza $41,250 $13,795 3
Toyota Corolla $30,000 $13,821 2.2
Hyundai Tiburon $35,000 $14,199 2.5
Chevrolet Cavalier $26,900 $14,373 1.9
Geo Tracker $50,000 $14,563 3.4

Owners:Highest Income
=====================
Make Model Income Price I/P Ratio
--------------------------------------------------------
Mercedes-Benz SL-Class $230,000 $101,400 2.3
Ferrari 456 GT $225,000 $224,800 1
Jaguar XJ Sedan $225,000 $60,025 3.7
Saab 9000 $225,000 $36,695 6.1
Lexus LS 400 $215,250 $52,900 4.1
BMW 8-Series $196,000 $85,200 2.3
BMW 7-Series $175,000 $75,975 2.3
Ferrari F355 $150,000 $132,130 1.1
Mercedes-Benz S-Class $150,000 $98,300 1.5
Acura NSX $140,000 $86,000 1.6
Porsche 911 $138,050 $106,875 1.3
Toyota Supra $131,500 $34,700 3.8
BMW 5-Series $120,000 $45,425 2.6
Cadillac Eldorado $105,000 $39,695 2.6
Cadillac Seville $105,000 $42,495 2.5
Infiniti I30 $105,000 $30,150 3.5
Lexus GS 300 $103,125 $45,700 2.3
Audi A6 $100,000 $33,400 3
Audi A6 Wagon $100,000 $35,200 2.8
Infiniti J30 $100,000 $35,750 2.8

Owners:Lowest Income
====================
Make Model Income Price I/P Ratio
--------------------------------------------------------
Buick Skylark $26,700 $17,123 1.6
Chevrolet Cavalier $26,900 $14,373 1.9
Geo Metro $27,750 $9,215 3
Hyundai Accent $29,250 $9,399 3.1
Toyota Corolla $30,000 $13,821 2.2
Mitsubishi Mirage $30,000 $11,805 2.5
Hyundai Elantra Wagon $30,000 $12,999 2.3
Hyundai Elantra $30,000 $11,824 2.5
Toyota Tercel $31,500 $11,433 2.8
Ford Aspire $31,500 $9,610 3.3
Pontiac Sunfire $32,250 $15,479 2.1
Mazda MPV $32,250 $25,995 1.2
Buick Century $33,000 $18,553 1.8
Ford Escort $33,800 $12,080 2.8
Oldsmobile Achieva $34,000 $16,100 2.1
Hyundai Tiburon $35,000 $14,199 2.5
Chevrolet Monte Carlo $35,250 $18,695 1.9
Chevrolet Lumina $35,250 $18,195 1.9
Hyundai Sonata $37,500 $16,649 2.3
Dodge Neon $37,500 $11,533 3.3

Owners:Most Frugal
==================
Make Model Income Price I/P Ratio
--------------------------------------------------------
Saab 9000 $225,000 $36,695 6.1
Jeep Wrangler $75,000 $16,340 4.6
Lexus LS 400 $215,250 $52,900 4.1
Toyota Supra $131,500 $34,700 3.8
Saturn SL $43,500 $11,545 3.8
Jaguar XJ Sedan $225,000 $60,025 3.7
Geo Prizm $47,000 $13,163 3.6
Infiniti I30 $105,000 $30,150 3.5
Geo Tracker $50,000 $14,563 3.4
Saturn SW $43,500 $12,645 3.4
Lexus ES 300 $99,000 $29,900 3.3
Dodge Neon $37,500 $11,533 3.3
Ford Aspire $31,500 $9,610 3.3
Buick Riviera $95,000 $30,110 3.2
Toyota Celica $67,500 $20,808 3.2
Ford Probe $50,000 $15,605 3.2
Honda Civic $42,750 $13,515 3.2
Hyundai Accent $29,250 $9,399 3.1
Audi A6 $100,000 $33,400 3
Audi A4 $79,000 $26,010 3

Owners:Least Frugal
===================
Make Model Income Price I/P Ratio
--------------------------------------------------------
Ferrari 456 GT $225,000 $224,800 1
Ferrari F355 $150,000 $132,130 1.1
Mazda MPV $32,250 $25,995 1.2
Porsche 911 $138,050 $106,875 1.3
Buick Park Avenue $45,000 $32,495 1.4
Dodge Viper $90,000 $66,000 1.4
Mercedes-Benz S-Class $150,000 $98,300 1.5
Buick Skylark $26,700 $17,123 1.6
Oldsmobile Silhouette $38,400 $23,680 1.6
Lincoln Town Car $65,250 $40,240 1.6
Acura NSX $140,000 $86,000 1.6
Mercury Grand Marquis $40,000 $23,213 1.7
Subaru SVX $56,300 $33,435 1.7
Infiniti QX4 $60,750 $35,550 1.7
Buick Century $33,000 $18,553 1.8
Chevrolet Venture $38,400 $21,312 1.8
Ford Taurus $40,000 $22,228 1.8
Ford Crown Victoria $40,500 $22,435 1.8
Dodge Caravan $41,250 $23,318 1.8
Buick LeSabre $42,750 $23,790 1.8

The Fiat is an 500C that my wife drives the most. We also share an 08 smart that is my nasty weather commuter. I ride a bike in nicer weather. No ice or lighting... The feel good factor is a big part. smart will sell me an electric drive car where I live now. They cost too much. They all do.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

I will probably not own a fully electric car in my lifetime . Nothing to do with my net worth but "The Nuisance factor "is too high ..

- Short range
- Expensive drive train replacements
- Expensive purchase price ( Volt , glorified Malibu for $45k)
- Lack of adequate charging stations
- Lack of adequate maintenance mechanics

Sounds like a business opportunity.

 

[ThreeWheelBurnin]

I will probably not own a fully electric car in my lifetime . Nothing to do with my net worth but "The Nuisance factor "is too high ..

- Short range
- Expensive drive train replacements
- Expensive purchase price ( Volt , glorified Malibu for $45k)
- Lack of adequate charging stations
- Lack of adequate maintenance mechanics

Not to be nitpicky, but the Volt is more of a glorified Cruze. It's built on the Cruze plaform and is quite a bit smaller than a Malibu. Still, I'm kinda fascinated by the Volt, especially the 2016. It starts at $34k and with tax credits, it could be down in the $27k range. Since it has a gas engine, there's no range anxiety. With a 50 mile all-electric range, my wife would almost never need to put gas in it.

$27k is still quite a chunk of change in my book, but if I can put a $6800 Elio in my driveway, I might be able to swing it.

I'm approaching the 1 year anniversary of my All-in reservation, and I *really* want my Elio!