The Ever Falling Hp Of The Elio.... :(

[carzes]

My gf had one in germany, just like that one. Brings back memories. It was never a race car but it got the job done on very little gas, which is important at over $5 per gallon, back in the 90's. I'm sure it's much more now. I guess popular wisdom has it we never should have survived merging onto the autobahn with it, but we went all over Europe in the Charade and lived to tell the tale.

 

[D.D.Bwana]

I know of no other country that is so obcessed with acceleration as the US. Maybe because it's all we CAN do without getting a ticket. Although they can still get you for exhibition driving I guess. I putt along through my daily commute at 55 mph through the multiple speed-traps, dreaming of Germany and the autobahn, and those twisty, exciting back roads through the country. Our roads are mostly arrow-streight and glacial paced. So I GET it. Driving here is NOT fun. It's boring. If not for the pretty scenery I'd have gone comatose years ago from sheer boredom.
But if 'launching' from every red light and flooring the gas at every opportunity is your driving style you won't be getting good mpg. Period.
And the excuse of personal safety to justify every performance spec or option that we WANT is getting tired. My 4-banger pickup does 0-60 in just shy of a week, and I'm NOT going to DIE because of it. No, I don't drive in YOUR city, but I've driven in LOTS of cities and yours is not that eceptional. Millions of cars on the road are NOT rocket ships and somehow we survive the day. As an EMT I have NEVER seen a fatality due to lack of acceleration, but I have seen PLENTY from excessive speed. Sure I can invent some scenario that it COULD happen, then again I can invent some scenario in which you'd die for lack of a can opener, a white rock, and a portable fax machine.

Well said.

 

[Folks]

My gf had one in germany, just like that one. Brings back memories. It was never a race car but it got the job done on very little gas, which is important at over $5 per gallon, back in the 90's. I'm sure it's much more now. I guess popular wisdom has it we never should have survived merging onto the autobahn with it, but we went all over Europe in the Charade and lived to tell the tale.

In 1968 Korea had one interstate due north and south out of Soul. Wouldn't you know that one of our E8s was a fatality on it with a 40 hp jeep going too fast. Go figure

 

[imageon]

Aerodynamics plays a more important roll in regards to acceleration at speed, which is when you need it. The puny engine in my CRZ kicks rump when you get on it at between 60-90 mph. I attribute that to the aerodynamic shape of the car. Now the Elio is much more streamlined than the CRZ so 55 horse will probably move it pretty good with out the wind resistance pushing on it.
MK

 

[carzes]

Aerodynamics plays a more important roll in regards to acceleration at speed, which is when you need it. The puny engine in my CRZ kicks rump when you get on it at between 60-90 mph. I attribute that to the aerodynamic shape of the car. Now the Elio is much more streamlined than the CRZ so 55 horse will probably move it pretty good with out the wind resistance pushing on it.
MK

Yes and no. Sorry guys but I have to indulge my inner nerd a bit.
Aerodynamics is essentially referring to air resistance, which is a function of a number of constants in this case with the prime variable being velocity relative to air. A 50% change in velocity will result in a change in air resistance by a factor of about 2.25. However, this is not affected by rate of change in velocity. In other words, if you want to increase speed you'll have to committ the necessary force to overcome increased drag no matter how long it takes to increase speed. Acceleration then is reduced to a simple matter of force exerted on mass resulting in change in velocity. So I guess the difference would be; after overcoming the increase in drag, which has more surplus power to apply to acceleration of it's given mass.

 

[imageon]

Yes.
MK

 

[Folks]

Yes and no. Sorry guys but I have to indulge my inner nerd a bit.
Aerodynamics is essentially referring to air resistance, which is a function of a number of constants in this case with the prime variable being velocity relative to air. A 50% change in velocity will result in a change in air resistance by a factor of about 2.25. However, this is not affected by rate of change in velocity. In other words, if you want to increase speed you'll have to committ the necessary force to overcome increased drag no matter how long it takes to increase speed. Acceleration then is reduced to a simple matter of force exerted on mass resulting in change in velocity. So I guess the difference would be; after overcoming the increase in drag, which has more surplus power to apply to acceleration of it's given mass.

Ok now its my turn. LOL Roughly speaking the wind resistance on a vehicle is 4 times stronger at 70 mph than when going 35 mph. That is to say aerodynamics is tons more important at 75 than at 35. One might say horsepower is 4 time more important at 75. Man are we low down and nerdy yet?

 

[carzes]

Ok now its my turn. LOL Roughly speaking the wind resistance on a vehicle is 4 times stronger at 70 mph than when going 35 mph. That is to say aerodynamics is tons more important at 75 than at 35. One might say horsepower is 4 time more important at 75. Man are we low down and nerdy yet?

I be ridin' white and nerdy!
certainly drag coeficient is exponentially more important as velocity increases because the drag is a function of the velocity squared, all else being equal. But we don't run our engines at 100% output all the time. Typically we are only using a small fraction of their max output at sustained speeds. So, if for example we needed 5 HP to overcome air resistance at 35 mph, then we would need 20 HP at 70 mph. On a 55 HP engine that leaves 35 HP for acceleration. Not exactly, I know, but let's keep it simple, I forgot my pocket protector.
If we reduce the drag coeficient by 50% that results in a top speed requirement of only 10HP to overcome air resistance, leaving 45 for acceleration, which represents a 29% increase.
If we leave the same drag coeficient as our first example but instead increase HP by 50% to 82.5 minus the 20HP for drag compensation, we have 62.5 HP for acceleration, an increase of 79%. Which makes engine power 2.7 times as important as aerodynamics for acceleration at speed in this example.
Taking one step further, because acceleration is a direct function of mass and force, a 50% reduction in vehicle mass results in a 100% increase in acceleration, regardless of drag forces so long as they remain a constant. Which makes the weight of the vehicle the MOST important factor in acceleration at ANY speed. Not to say that the other factors are not important, just not MOST important.
Nerd out my homies!!

 

[outsydthebox]

I be ridin' white and nerdy!
certainly drag coeficient is exponentially more important as velocity increases because the drag is a function of the velocity squared, all else being equal. But we don't run our engines at 100% output all the time. Typically we are only using a small fraction of their max output at sustained speeds. So, if for example we needed 5 HP to overcome air resistance at 35 mph, then we would need 20 HP at 70 mph. On a 55 HP engine that leaves 35 HP for acceleration. Not exactly, I know, but let's keep it simple, I forgot my pocket protector.
If we reduce the drag coeficient by 50% that results in a top speed requirement of only 10HP to overcome air resistance, leaving 45 for acceleration, which represents a 29% increase.
If we leave the same drag coeficient as our first example but instead increase HP by 50% to 82.5 minus the 20HP for drag compensation, we have 62.5 HP for acceleration, an increase of 79%. Which makes engine power 2.7 times as important as aerodynamics for acceleration at speed in this example.
Taking one step further, because acceleration is a direct function of mass and force, a 50% reduction in vehicle mass results in a 100% increase in acceleration, regardless of drag forces so long as they remain a constant. Which makes the weight of the vehicle the MOST important factor in acceleration at ANY speed. Not to say that the other factors are not important, just not MOST important.
Nerd out my homies!!

Excellent slide rule skills! Way beyond my fingers and toes! All I know is, I never was in any danger of being "left behind" while driving my 200K mile Metro. In years past, I did a little acceleration study of my own. IIRC, 0-60 times (keeping up with traffic) was in the 20 second range. And it wasn't much different from 0-45.
We still don't know the the figures on the new engine either, except that the "long connecting rod" design is for greater torque / better acceleration. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the improved design yielded better than 90mpg's, causing them to increase the HP/torque output, just to meet their 84mpg target!

 

[JDub]

I be ridin' white and nerdy!
certainly drag coeficient is exponentially more important as velocity increases because the drag is a function of the velocity squared, all else being equal. But we don't run our engines at 100% output all the time. Typically we are only using a small fraction of their max output at sustained speeds. So, if for example we needed 5 HP to overcome air resistance at 35 mph, then we would need 20 HP at 70 mph. On a 55 HP engine that leaves 35 HP for acceleration. Not exactly, I know, but let's keep it simple, I forgot my pocket protector.
If we reduce the drag coeficient by 50% that results in a top speed requirement of only 10HP to overcome air resistance, leaving 45 for acceleration, which represents a 29% increase.
If we leave the same drag coeficient as our first example but instead increase HP by 50% to 82.5 minus the 20HP for drag compensation, we have 62.5 HP for acceleration, an increase of 79%. Which makes engine power 2.7 times as important as aerodynamics for acceleration at speed in this example.
Taking one step further, because acceleration is a direct function of mass and force, a 50% reduction in vehicle mass results in a 100% increase in acceleration, regardless of drag forces so long as they remain a constant. Which makes the weight of the vehicle the MOST important factor in acceleration at ANY speed. Not to say that the other factors are not important, just not MOST important.
Nerd out my homies!!

While your at it why not talk about the effects of mechanical drag.