The Elio Engine

[wheaters]

Snick, I had noticed the dual inlet cam lobes and that, coupled with Elio's statement about the IAV only putting out 55 hp, is part of the contradictory information that I referred to. I don't know the answer, I'm afraid.

 

[Ekh]

You know, these guys must be sweating blood trying to get a full engine together and running. They absolutely do know how important it is ... and they can't get to their fuel numbers without it. So whatever we're seeing on FB etc, there HAS to be massive work going on behind the scenes. If there isn't, because they're really out of money for now, well....

 

[skygazer6033]

There is much confusion over the IAV valve train. According to the spec sheet seen along side the demo engine on tour the head uses "switchable tappets" components only used with VVT. Techtalk v4 says "2 stage VVT will be used". Techtalk v24 says" VVT will not be used"(do to expense considerations) but the animation clearly shows 2 cam lobes per intake valve follower. I think at this point in time everything is just speculation. I also think the reason we have a forum is to get a variety of opinions and points of view. After all if we all thought just alike how would we learn anything.

 

[eddie66]

 

[goofyone]

Snick, I had noticed the dual inlet cam lobes and that, coupled with Elio's statement about the IAV only putting out 55 hp, is part of the contradictory information that I referred to. I don't know the answer, I'm afraid.

There is much confusion over the IAV valve train. According to the spec sheet seen along side the demo engine on tour the head uses "switchable tappets" components only used with VVT. Techtalk v4 says "2 stage VVT will be used". Techtalk v24 says" VVT will not be used"(do to expense considerations) but the animation clearly shows 2 cam lobes per intake valve follower. I think at this point in time everything is just speculation. I also think the reason we have a forum is to get a variety of opinions and points of view. After all if we all thought just alike how would we learn anything.

Let me help clear up some confusion I am noting in this thread.

In the recent Town Hall meeting Paul Elio himself touched on an important issue related to the 55 HP rating. The engine as designed is actually capable of higher output however to achieve maximum MPG it is being detuned. Paul Elio even discussed the possibility of making a smartphone hosted software package available, possibly at extra cost, which would allow Elio Owners to raise the power output simply by changing the ECU settings.

In the very first Tech Talk IAV/Elio did not state that this engine will have variable valve timing but instead what they wrote is that the engine will use 'two-step variable LIFT technology'. This information is further corroborated by the IAV/Elio demo engine spec sheet stating that 'switchable tappets' will be used as switchable tappets are specifically used to change lift. Switchable tappets are commonly used as one component of a VVT package however there is nothing to say they can not be used on their own. In the following rendering you can see how dual cam lobes can be used in combination with switchable tappets to provide two stage valve lift.

I will admit that I was also confused about the VVT until I went back and re-read the two Tech Talks and discovered that Elio Motors had stated all along that this engine would feature variable valve lift and not variable valve timing.

Tech Talk V1: http://us6.campaign-archive2.com/?u=24b371802c83d81776b06aa68&id=545e7f615f
Tech Talk V24: http://us6.campaign-archive1.com/?u=24b371802c83d81776b06aa68&id=4801365dc7

IAV/Elio has not released much direct information on the valvetrain so there are some valid question which we simply to do not have good answers for at this time however the engine animation video and what little we do have in writing does help give us some good clues as to what is possibly going on.

 

[skygazer6033]

Great valve train rendering Goofy. My contention is if you have 2 stage lift you also have 2 stage duration. Anyway since this is likely electrohydraulically controlled by the ECU it may be adjustable thru the smartphone app. (Pure speculation on my part) I'm still impressed with phones that have buttons rather than a dial.

 

[outsydthebox]

Let me help clear up some confusion I am noting in this thread.

In the recent Town Hall meeting Paul Elio himself touched on an important issue related to the 55 HP rating. The engine as designed is actually capable of higher output however to achieve maximum MPG it is being detuned. Paul Elio even discussed the possibility of making a smartphone hosted software package available, possibly at extra cost, which would allow Elio Owners to raise the power output simply by changing the ECU settings.

In the very first Tech Talk IAV/Elio did not state that this engine will have variable valve timing but instead what they wrote is that the engine will use 'two-step variable LIFT technology'. This information is further corroborated by the IAV/Elio demo engine spec sheet stating that 'switchable tappets' will be used as switchable tappets are specifically used to change lift. Switchable tappets are commonly used as one component of a VVT package however there is nothing to say they can not be used on their own. In the following rendering you can see how dual cam lobes can be used in combination with switchable tappets to provide two stage valve lift.

I will admit that I was also confused about the VVT until I went back and re-read the two Tech Talks and discovered that Elio Motors had all along claimed variable lift and not variable timing.

Tech Talk V1: http://us6.campaign-archive2.com/?u=24b371802c83d81776b06aa68&id=545e7f615f
Tech Talk V24: http://us6.campaign-archive1.com/?u=24b371802c83d81776b06aa68&id=4801365dc7

IAV/Elio has not released much direct information on the valvetrain so there are some valid question which we simply to do not have good answers for at this time however the engine animation video and what little we do have in writing does help give us some good clues as to what is possibly going on.

In Tech Talk V24, this paragraph stood out:

"Why no Duel Over Head Cam (DOHC) or Variable Value Timing (VVT)?

Both of these technologies can help with fuel economy. However, both cost more than the current design parameter. As the product evolves, this technology could quite possibly be considered for future model years."

As this is the "most recent" statement we have, I am ok with it. Only time will tell.

 

[Ekh]

Great valve train rendering Goofy. My contention is if you have 2 stage lift you also have 2 stage duration. Anyway since this is likely electrohydraulically controlled by the ECU it may be adjustable thru the smartphone app. (Pure speculation on my part) I'm still impressed with phones that have buttons rather than a dial.

Being able to pep up the engine that way sounds great to me! You could even do it via a switch on the dash -- economy vs. power mode. ECU moves from Program A to Program B (and back again if wanted).

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Adding a thought -- if Paul is concerned about cost per button (as he avowedly is), you could easily to the engine boost button as an option and put a blank piece of plastic where it goes ... like all the other car makers who have optional switches that are blanked unless you buy that option.

I would happily pay quite a lot for that particular button!

 

[Ekh]

Is there a transcript of the Town Hall meeting?

 

[goofyone]

Great valve train rendering Goofy. My contention is if you have 2 stage lift you also have 2 stage duration. Anyway since this is likely electrohydraulically controlled by the ECU it may be adjustable thru the smartphone app. (Pure speculation on my part) I'm still impressed with phones that have buttons rather than a dial.

I agree that using this type of system for variable duration is a possibility depending on the implementation. We will just have to see how exactly IAV implements this technology as the details will make all the difference.

Speculation is fun and as we do not have much detail on the valvetrain, and plenty of time on our hands, there is plenty of speculation to be enjoyed. I just wanted to make sure everyone was on the same page when it came to the little bit of information we do have.

When did phones have a dial?

Being able to pep up the engine that way sounds great to me! You could even do it via a switch on the dash -- economy vs. power mode. ECU moves from Program A to Program B (and back again if wanted).

I am hoping this is basically what the smartphone app can do. My diesel pickup has a tuner installed which allows me to select various modes so I can select maximum fuel economy both with or without a trailer attached or if I want I can turn the power all the way up and burn my rear tires off in under a minute.