The Elio Engine

[AriLea]

a question : as a general rule would the hp drop to the drive wheels usually be less with front wheel drive than it is with rear wheel drive

Where there is a differential, very slightly more than not, like compared to a motorcycle drive.
Front and rear drives both have them in cars. Normally about the same. But viscosity maters so a 90weight oil which is most always in the rear, would be very slightly more than a lower weight in the front, if it has that.

All this gearing has fluid/oil. Squishing that around creates heat. The more heat, the more energy lost.
The more wet gears you turn the more heat created. For example, even when a 4WD differencial is un-powered, it still turns, locked to the wheels. and so creates some heat.
Dry belts even make heat, but very-very little, mostly though friction and less so squishing air about.

 

[AriLea]

......" I suspect Elio is waiting for more dyno runs with production manifolds and exhaust before they record an official hp rating."........
Raises the interesting question......
Will production manifolds be cast or welded tube since Elio has no foundry?
Which might be cheaper and give the most consistent result?
If it was there foundry it would be a no brainer, but since they don't have one which is cheaper per unit?

OK, you got me there, if they use a foundry, it will be a contract with an outside company. There are plenty of those.
It's a mater of volume, at the low end welded is cheaper, at the high-end quality cast with little finish work.
I would have no access to know the cross-over point. But I would guess even at 100cars a day, they would probably contract for castings.

We have a member or two that worked on the line, let's ask them, were any of the product lines you worked on using bent and welded tubing for the manifold bolted right to the engine?

I should state that consistent product is highly important, and IMHO quality castings, with fewer fabrication steps would have a lower reject rate and higher level of consistent finishing inside the areas of flow. Your mileage may very depending on the engineering.

And there is a sizing issue, bigger castings get expensive. so the volume count of which to use is different for a small engine vs a large one.

 

[JEBar]

Where there is a differential, very slightly more than not, like compared to a motorcycle drive.
Front and rear drives both have them in cars. Normally about the same. But viscosity maters so a 90weight oil which is most always in the rear, would be very slightly more than a lower weight in the front, if it has that.

All this gearing has fluid/oil. Squishing that around creates heat. The more heat, the more energy lost.
The more wet gears you turn the more heat created. For example, even when a 4WD differencial is un-powered, it still turns, locked to the wheels. and so creates some heat.
Dry belts even make heat, but very-very little, mostly though friction and less so squishing air about.

thanks .... info appreciated

 

[WilliamH]

Wasn't supposed to be a "gotcha" question.
I really don't know.
Nicely bent and welded looks pretty but pretty isn't always best.

 

[Kuda]

Elio has zero HP at the rear wheel.

Just kidding...I knew what you meant.

 

[ehwatt]

a question : as a general rule would the hp drop to the drive wheels usually be less with front wheel drive than it is with rear wheel drive

I would think that not having to transmit power to the other end reduces drivetrain loss and probably more significant, is the reduced weight.

 

[NSTG8R]

Yeah...it comes naturally.

 

[karl]

Thought this may interest some here https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/old-engines-again-ford-uses-213313223.html

 

[Ty]

Where there is a differential, very slightly more than not, like compared to a motorcycle drive.
Front and rear drives both have them in cars. Normally about the same. But viscosity maters so a 90weight oil which is most always in the rear, would be very slightly more than a lower weight in the front, if it has that.

All this gearing has fluid/oil. Squishing that around creates heat. The more heat, the more energy lost.
The more wet gears you turn the more heat created. For example, even when a 4WD differencial is un-powered, it still turns, locked to the wheels. and so creates some heat.
Dry belts even make heat, but very-very little, mostly though friction and less so squishing air about.

My 4X4 transfer unit does NOT spin all the time... Only when it is engaged. 4X4s used to only disconnect at the wheels but even now, that's controlled - pneumatically on my Ford. Gone are the days where a 4X4 has a bunch of spinning parts that don't do anything most of the time. AWD vehicles which are basically full time 4X4 of a sort, do have a lot of extra moving parts.

I may not be completely right but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express!

 

[JEBar]

I may not be completely right but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express!

the last time we stayed overnight at a Holiday Inn Express, they charged us $140 for the room and I didn't feel a bit smarter the next morning ...