Sondors Electric Car

[acentre]

That's not the situation at all.

The next step to get to production is raising $2M out of the $20M needed for a production prototype, testing, mods and tooling.
By only raising $2M at a time for now, they can stay away from A+ but still offer the investment opportunity to unqualified investors.

They'll use the $2M to build the "production ready Model Sondors". Then the next $18M raised will be used for testing, mods and tooling.
They've estimated that building the engineering "production ready Model Sondors" will take several months.
They've estimated that testing, modding and tooling will take at least six months after that.

As far as the terminology, what else are you going to call the next prototype that, after testing and mods will be the production ready model...
If not a production ready model? If you call it anything else at any stage of it's existence, won't that just confuse the public?

On the other hand, you couldn't, by the wildest stretch, call the P3 a production ready model...
Because, hopefully, somewhere in the succession of models that have/will com after the P3...
There will be one you will actually be a true production model.

How much did it cost Elio to develop the engine? I am still waiting to hear from Paul as to how and when my Elio will be built.

 

[Rickb]

The pre-production model is the vehicle that's used for production model tooling. I look at the production model as the first production vehicle delivered to an actual customer. Are the 6 Signature Series FUVs and the 50 FUV Pilot vehicles production models or pre-production models? It doesn't matter because I'm easily confused and willtake take most anything regardless of what they call it at this point in time.

 

[Elio Amazed]

The pre-production model is the vehicle that's used for production model tooling. I look at the production model as the first production vehicle delivered to an actual customer. Are the 6 Signature Series FUVs and the 50 FUV Pilot vehicles production models or pre-production models? It doesn't matter because I'm easily confused and willtake take most anything regardless of what they call it at this point in time.

Again, personal interpretation. Tom-a-to, Tom-au-to.

My personal interpretation is that the final prototype used to tool the mass production line is a production ready model.

 

[Rickb]

How much did it cost Elio to develop the engine? I am still waiting to hear from Paul as to how and when my Elio will be built.

 

[Elio Amazed]

View attachment 22245

And I suspect that (what was still owed and reportedly in litigation) is just a small fraction of what it cost.

 

[Maurtis]

Again, personal interpretation. Tom-a-to, Tom-au-to.

My personal interpretation is that the final prototype used to tool the mass production line is a production ready model.

We are using the same definition for production ready model, but is that the car they are building with the initial $2M?

Say they build an engineering model with the $2M, something I have no doubt they can do. Sondors then spends a chunk of the additional $18M on testing, modifying, tweaking and tuning the model until it becomes the production ready model. The vehicle they built for $2M was not the end result. That is what I find misleading.

Do not get me wrong, I like what Sondors is doing and I put a little money in on the initial unqualified investment opportunity and will probably go for the 200 mile model should Elio not make headway by 2019. I just think the email to lure investors in by claiming the $2M builds the production ready model was misleading. I got the email too, and had I not been here to watch Elio's steps I would have believed that the $2M alone would result in just what they said, the production ready model. Not the starting point for what will eventually become the production ready model.

 

[Elio Amazed]

We are using the same definition for production ready model, but is that the car they are building with the initial $2M?

Say they build an engineering model with the $2M, something I have no doubt they can do. Sondors then spends a chunk of the additional $18M on testing, modifying, tweaking and tuning the model until it becomes the production ready model. The vehicle they built for $2M was not the end result. That is what I find misleading.

Do not get me wrong, I like what Sondors is doing and I put a little money in on the initial unqualified investment opportunity and will probably go for the 200 mile model should Elio not make headway by 2019. I just think the email to lure investors in by claiming the $2M builds the production ready model was misleading. I got the email too, and had I not been here to watch Elio's steps I would have believed that the $2M alone would result in just what they said, the production ready model. Not the starting point for what will eventually become the production ready model.

Again, IMO, it's a matter of your perspective. I find nothing misleading or "luring".
The mission statement of ultimately raising and using another total of $20M to get to production...
Has been outlined numerous times. The information is easily and readily available to anyone and everyone.

Any reasonable person would assume that the testing mentioned in the quote below...
Will almost certainly find that the vehicle needs some degree of modification and tuning.
They aren't calling it a production vehicle nor did they say that it won't be tested and refined.

It's going to be the same one basic vehicle from the start to the finish of the $20M process.
Not completely different ones. How many name changes during the process should there be?

"In the next 60 days, we're raising $2 million to complete a production ready Model SONDORS.
We'll then work to raise the additional funds necessary for production tooling and testing."
https://www.elioowners.com/threads/sondors-electric-car.7832/page-52#post-191057

I see your point. But I still think it comes down to Tom-a-to, tom-au-to.

 

[Rickb]

It boils down to how Storm says and means it. Even though the 3 seater SONDORs doesn't meet my needs/wants, I think the SONDORs #1 Show Car prototype looks close to production ready. SONDORS #2 will be the fine tuned performance car ready for track testing. Storm apparently made the statement at the LA Auto show that the first 1000 SONDORs will be built in Italy. No way those Signature Series vehicles will sell for $10K. The SS's may be the test fleet followed by the Production build to order ramp up. Somehow I think Storm will pull this off.

 

[Rob Croson]

I just think the email to lure investors in by claiming the $2M builds the production ready model was misleading. I got the email too, and had I not been here to watch Elio's steps I would have believed that the $2M alone would result in just what they said, the production ready model. Not the starting point for what will eventually become the production ready model.

When comparing EM to Sondors, and how much money they have expended to get to somewhat similar points, you have to remember that EM and Sondors have different goals. EM is trying to develop their entire production process that they will own completely. This includes a factory, tooling, parts, people, etc. When they are done, they will have substantially more than a production ready design and a handful of prototypes.

Sondors is trying to develop a model that he can give to someone else to build for him. When Sondors is done spending his millions he will have a supposedly production-ready model, and a handful of prototypes. There is still a HUGE expense that someone else must incur to build the darn things. (And, of course, there *will* be substantial design changes during the actual build process.)

You simply cannot compare the money it takes EM to get the first one on the road, to the money it takes Sondors to get the first one on the road. EM's money will get you everything you need to start pumping out Elios by the tens of thousands. Sondors' money will get you a design that you have to get someone else to build for you.

 

[Elio Amazed]

When comparing EM to Sondors, and how much money they have expended to get to somewhat similar points, you have to remember that EM and Sondors have different goals. EM is trying to develop their entire production process that they will own completely. This includes a factory, tooling, parts, people, etc. When they are done, they will have substantially more than a production ready design and a handful of prototypes.

True that. But "When they are done" has become the key factor.
I see the eventual objectives as being one and the same here.
Selling a gazillion cars. Isn't the end game the whole point?

Whether you succeeded or failed rather than how you played the game?
One plan depends on a huge amount of "Ifs", the other is lacking much of that risk.
And, of course, the success of both will ultimately depend on market demand/acceptance.

EM's money will get you everything you need to start pumping out Elios by the tens of thousands. Sondors' money will get you a design that you have to get someone else to build for you.

Well, apparently the huge amount of money EM already spent did not...
"get you everything you need to start pumping out Elios by the tens of thousands."
The very difference in strategies outlined above may prove to be the cause of EM's demise.

Time will tell. Fun to watch though. Many of us have $1k seats.