Solo

[Mark BEX]

I think the main issue was the price. I mean what is a half sized city car that fits only one person worth to you? No sportiness involved?

I think $15k is about as much you can go and generate any wide appeal. $19k was a bit too much.
The red one around here is still on the roads.

I read a study about 7 or 8 years ago covering all non essential personal use vehicles, and at the time, $15,000 (not purchase price, but purchase and costs over 1 year) was the point where sales dramatically dropped off, be it motorcycles, kit planes, kit cars, snowmobiles, jetskis etc.

 

[RSchneider]

I think the main issue was the price. I mean what is a half sized city car that fits only one person worth to you? No sportiness involved?

I think $15k is about as much you can go and generate any wide appeal. $19k was a bit too much.
The red one around here is still on the roads.

I was just confused by the company itself. They seemed to not have a consistent plan. Build in Canada, then contract out in China then all of a sudden, go to Phoenix. They changed lots of upper management and then all of a sudden, wanted to buy back all of the cars? How in the world do you think running a business will work? It seems like they just went from the Solo to just selling themselves as a contract manufacturer. Honestly, it's just a warehouse. Are they expecting some big company to use them? I wouldn't because they seem to never make up their mind. Maybe they are waiting for Aptera to call them and have them build their thing? Maybe just make it a hub for delayed three wheelers companies. Nimbus, Elio, Arcimoto, Solo and Aptera. A consortium. Like Airbus, but the Airbus for three wheelers.

 

[dbacksfan81]

JMO, the Solo was a niche car, inside of a niche market. The 3 wheeled market, to me, has always been a small market but there were/are buyers out there. The Solo might be a good second car for a married couple with no kids, or a and car for a single person that already has a regular vehicle for real trips out of town, taking the dog to the vet.

I think the buyback that ElectraMeccanica did with the Solo was the right thing to do, but it also, I think, ended the Solo. Having them say "Your car may lose propulsion without warning, and while other systems will work, your car will come to a stop, and may restart after a period of time, and we have no fix for it" would stop me from considering one.

https://www.emvauto.com/solo

It sounds like Xos is buying up manufacturing equipment in the deal, there's not much else there.

 

[Rickb]

I listened to Jerry Kroll on a recent podcast. He apparently bought out the rights to everything Solo and contracted with a company that has engineered the fix for other EVs having had the same issue with the 12V battery drain. He plans to relaunch with the new and improved Solo 2 in 2025.

He wasn’t sure how many opted for the buyback, but stated that many of the current owners have experienced zero issues and prefer to keep their Solos. Comforted by the fact there is a well stocked inventory of parts available for their vehicles. Very responsible of ElectraMeccanica to offer the buy back option at 100% on the dollar paid. Not so with Arcimoto.

 

[RSchneider]

ElectraMeccanica didn't want what they had and sold it to make a quick buck. Nothing to do with being responsible. I'll wait and see what Jerry does. He makes a number of claims and then sees to what sticks.

As for Arcimoto. All of that debacle is because of Mark. He created that mess and instead of trying to fix it, he left when the times got hard. I suspect he came out of that deal quite wealthy. I suspect he'll try something else and get a following of people that will trust every word he says. People like him never go away, they just keep ripping people off due to their incompetence.

 

[Rickb]

ElectraMeccanica didn't want what they had and sold it to make a quick buck. Nothing to do with being responsible. I'll wait and see what Jerry does. He makes a number of claims and then sees to what sticks.

As for Arcimoto. All of that debacle is because of Mark. He created that mess and instead of trying to fix it, he left when the times got hard. I suspect he came out of that deal quite wealthy. I suspect he'll try something else and get a following of people that will trust every word he says. People like him never go away, they just keep ripping people off due to their incompetence.

My understanding is EM liked what they had, but some of the units sold had AC DC converter issues. Kroll partnered with an engineering firm that specializes in AC/DC converters that happens to be a huge fan of the Solo.

I believed Mark only because they did everything they said they were doing leading to the development of a FMVSS certified production model FUV that I had the opportunity to test drive. After the production start no progress whatsoever, beyond buying out his buddies Tilting Motor Works business for $10.5 Million that had nothing to do with the FUV. Lost focus and mismanagement. He apparently was forced to leave his CEO position because of a DUI. Other long time management fled the company, most likely selling their $FUV and are living happily ever after.

I currently trust no one, not even myself.

 

[RSchneider]

I believed Mark only because they did everything they said they were doing leading to the development of a FMVSS certified production model FUV that I had the opportunity to test drive.

You didn't do your due diligence then. Mark did not do everything before the first customer got one. Here are the top three things he never did and promised everyone he was going to do:

1. Full Hard enclosure (i.e. full doors)
2. Full HAVC
3. Extended battery pack

How do I know this? It's in the SEC filing before the IPO. Instead, he never did those and thus people were none too pleased because for the one main thing, no full doors. It seems the fans of the product just looked the other way and some tried justify that you didn't need it. That just turned away any new customers. That FMVSS certification is no big deal. I have no idea why you keep bringing it up. It's like a restaurant that is opening up and celebrating that they passed the local health inspection and got a restaurant license. It's just part of the business plan.

Then Mark and his delusional idea that the RAMP was somehow going to allow them to make 50K by 2025 and the price was going to go way down. Maybe that works in some textbook example but when it cost them 3X to make the FUV for what they were selling it for, it didn't take a genius that it was never going to happen. Yet people just believed him.

Teslaitis. This is what Mark had. Arcimoto was the next Tesla. It was going to take off and if he just used the Tesla model of direct sales and service, it was going to work. Instead of what I suggested for years (which the fans seemed to think was a bad idea) was to just set up dealers (via powersports dealers) to sell, do warranty and service the FUV. Plus it would have allowed me and tens of thousands of others to test drive one, yet a test drive for me would come with a $2K fee (that's called traveling somewhere and then pay to rent one). I know that Vanderhall tried the Tesla model and it failed. So they did what Mark should have done from day one. Yet Mark was thinking he was Elon.

Side projects and TMW purchase. TMW was a complete waste of money and time. It was a money losing business with just no more than 10 employees. Yet, Mark thought it was worth $14M. The MLM was another waste of resources. It was never going to sell well and by the way they handled the FUV, even if it did make it to production, they would be spending 3X more to make it as opposed to what they wanted to sell it for. Then all of the other resources poured into the various versions of the FUV was a really bad decision.

In the end, Mark had rock star syndrome. He went on a spending spree for worthless side projects as opposed to spending those resources to deliver what he promised, build up a dealer/service network and develop the FUV into something that is reliable. All I read is that people are having lots of problems with them and they have nowhere to go for repair. Upset owners with bricked FUV's and upset service places that struggled to get paid. Only the hard core fans will support the product. Everyone else that got burned and others that were thinking of buying one, moved on.

As for the DUI, that could have easily been turned into a positive and Mark could have made the FUV look better. All he had to do is partner with an organization like MADD. Do a few public service messages and that could easily have easily done the trick. Instead, Mark just walked away. He obviously didn't care anymore because his dream didn't magically work out. He knew the company was failing but wasn't man enough to step up to the plate and bust his hump to save it.

 

[Rickb]

You didn't do your due diligence then. Mark did not do everything before the first customer got one. Here are the top three things he never did and promised everyone he was going to do:

1. Full Hard enclosure (i.e. full doors)
2. Full HAVC
3. Extended battery pack

How do I know this? It's in the SEC filing before the IPO. Instead, he never did those and thus people were none too pleased because for the one main thing, no full doors. It seems the fans of the product just looked the other way and some tried justify that you didn't need it. That just turned away any new customers. That FMVSS certification is no big deal. I have no idea why you keep bringing it up. It's like a restaurant that is opening up and celebrating that they passed the local health inspection and got a restaurant license. It's just part of the business plan.

Then Mark and his delusional idea that the RAMP was somehow going to allow them to make 50K by 2025 and the price was going to go way down. Maybe that works in some textbook example but when it cost them 3X to make the FUV for what they were selling it for, it didn't take a genius that it was never going to happen. Yet people just believed him.

Teslaitis. This is what Mark had. Arcimoto was the next Tesla. It was going to take off and if he just used the Tesla model of direct sales and service, it was going to work. Instead of what I suggested for years (which the fans seemed to think was a bad idea) was to just set up dealers (via powersports dealers) to sell, do warranty and service the FUV. Plus it would have allowed me and tens of thousands of others to test drive one, yet a test drive for me would come with a $2K fee (that's called traveling somewhere and then pay to rent one). I know that Vanderhall tried the Tesla model and it failed. So they did what Mark should have done from day one. Yet Mark was thinking he was Elon.

Side projects and TMW purchase. TMW was a complete waste of money and time. It was a money losing business with just no more than 10 employees. Yet, Mark thought it was worth $14M. The MLM was another waste of resources. It was never going to sell well and by the way they handled the FUV, even if it did make it to production, they would be spending 3X more to make it as opposed to what they wanted to sell it for. Then all of the other resources poured into the various versions of the FUV was a really bad decision.

In the end, Mark had rock star syndrome. He went on a spending spree for worthless side projects as opposed to spending those resources to deliver what he promised, build up a dealer/service network and develop the FUV into something that is reliable. All I read is that people are having lots of problems with them and they have nowhere to go for repair. Upset owners with bricked FUV's and upset service places that struggled to get paid. Only the hard core fans will support the product. Everyone else that got burned and others that were thinking of buying one, moved on.

As for the DUI, that could have easily been turned into a positive and Mark could have made the FUV look better. All he had to do is partner with an organization like MADD. Do a few public service messages and that could easily have easily done the trick. Instead, Mark just walked away. He obviously didn't care anymore because his dream didn't magically work out. He knew the company was failing but wasn't man enough to step up to the plate and bust his hump to save it.

Due diligence? I could have cared less about HVAC or Range beyond 100 miles adequate for a city commuter (supplement to the family car and seasonal for some motorcycle owners). The FUV was the only three wheeler concept I’ve followed over the past 14 years that certified a production model vehicle. I had the opportunity to test drive the FUV and experience a factory tour. A blast to drive and saw FUVs on the assembly line. There was no indication that full doors were going to be an issue and long range and a full enclosure option could have been addressed during the 1.x FUV platform required for production scale that never materialized……..or more likely the process never started. Mismanagement and lost focus after the production start. Even had they done everything right there was no guaranteed success based on unproven market demand.

 

[RSchneider]

So, it's you forgive Mark for not including something on the option list and that's HVAC. All you had to do is not check the HVAC box. What about those full doors? I heard you talk about them over and over again and used it as a reason why you didn't take the FUV when your number came up. So, how do you explain that? Due diligence is to ask the hard questions and get an official response. I would have asked on my test drive, "I need full doors and you said that would be an option, when will that option come out?" Did you ask that? If you didn't then you didn't do your due diligence.

As for the battery pack, I bet many would want an extended option for that as many people do not live in areas where there is a 35 mile speed limit. Instead, some drive on the freeway and do 65 which makes for a 33 mile range. Not a good thing if you ask me. It can be a deal killer for others (just like full doors for you). So, when Mark says something, we just can;t give him multiple free passes because he made the most fun product humanly possible (which is subjective).

I guess selling about 1000 certified production models that are watching their value drop to more than 50% in just a few years. No service, no parts with many bricked FUV's out there and the company refusing to talk to their loyal customers. That's OK even though they lost their shirt on them and they are breaking down left and right with many only 5K on the clock. At least it's certified. I'd say, it's certified junk. It would have been better off to get this super simple certification after they tested it to make sure it functions over the long haul as opposed to getting it certified and leave the customers hanging.

 

[Rickb]

So, it's you forgive Mark for not including something on the option list and that's HVAC. All you had to do is not check the HVAC box. What about those full doors? I heard you talk about them over and over again and used it as a reason why you didn't take the FUV when your number came up. So, how do you explain that? Due diligence is to ask the hard questions and get an official response. I would have asked on my test drive, "I need full doors and you said that would be an option, when will that option come out?" Did you ask that? If you didn't then you didn't do your due diligence.

As for the battery pack, I bet many would want an extended option for that as many people do not live in areas where there is a 35 mile speed limit. Instead, some drive on the freeway and do 65 which makes for a 33 mile range. Not a good thing if you ask me. It can be a deal killer for others (just like full doors for you). So, when Mark says something, we just can;t give him multiple free passes because he made the most fun product humanly possible (which is subjective).

I guess selling about 1000 certified production models that are watching their value drop to more than 50% in just a few years. No service, no parts with many bricked FUV's out there and the company refusing to talk to their loyal customers. That's OK even though they lost their shirt on them and they are breaking down left and right with many only 5K on the clock. At least it's certified. I'd say, it's certified junk. It would have been better off to get this super simple certification after they tested it to make sure it functions over the long haul as opposed to getting it certified and leave the customers hanging.

The entire Arcimoto management team sucked immediately following the production start due to mismanagement and lost focus. What’s to forgive? Did I imply it’s OK? It is what it is