Paul Elio At St Francis University

[eliothegreat]

without a doubt in the academic, theoretical universe but unfortunately, seldom found in the real world

And that is the clearest indication that I may have been correct in stating that PF is an anachronism. It would appear that "Honesty is the best policy" is no longer seen as a realistic business plan by many. I salute Rickb as another anachronistic believer in truthfulness.

 

[JEBar]

And that is the clearest indication that I may have been correct in stating that PF is an anachronism. It would appear that "Honesty is the best policy" is no longer seen as a realistic business plan by many. I salute Rickb as another anachronistic believer in truthfulness.

I find Rickb's post to be interesting, well worth reading and considering .... can't say the same for PF's .... post filled with rage, deliberate deception, and even hate aren't

 

[RUCRAYZE]

Yes, but the best front is truthfulness or otherwise it may come back to bite you in the butt. You are spot on that we will ultimately judge the Elio Brand. It seems many of us are already in judgement.

The best front is not truthfulness. keeping your mouth shut always works, and if not- "let me get back to you", "I have to check with....) "It's not my decision to make", I can't share "it", not at this time. Ask any attorney, power broker, and good business people, You can never be accused of "lying" if you basically say nothing- until YOU pick where and when. I think EM has said too much and winds up with trying to defend/ explain,/ apologize for things they should have never said.
"we're experiencing a short delay" is better than people with scheduling conflicts, a few days before the event is announced. There have been quite a few EM statements, that could have been truthful,i.e. not lying (as some would suggest), instead of giving themselves deadlines they were unable to meet.
With the one exception (for me anyway) the "sense" that the money was secured.

 

[WilliamH]

And that is the clearest indication that I may have been correct in stating that PF is an anachronism. It would appear that "Honesty is the best policy" is no longer seen as a realistic business plan by many. I salute Rickb as another anachronistic believer in truthfulness.

Just because you know, or think you know, something does not mean that you should say it.
Since you appear to like old catch phrases try this one.
Discretion is the better part of valor.
Example: If you know your friends wife is sleeping with your boss, should you tell your friend?
Honesty or Discretion?
Or, try this one......
Unless there is a need to know, the answer you give must be no.

And it's not clear that you have a need to know.

 

[LockMD]

I can neither confirm nor deny that statement.

 

[AriLea]

Good lord. There is no argument like a philosophical one. Where goals and values use analogies and story book clinches as proxy warriors. Keep that in mind, in such a realm, two challengers can easily be fighting two separate wars and not know it.

 

[Rickb]

The best front is not truthfulness. keeping your mouth shut always works, and if not- "let me get back to you", "I have to check with....) "It's not my decision to make", I can't share "it", not at this time. Ask any attorney, power broker, and good business people, You can never be accused of "lying" if you basically say nothing- until YOU pick where and when. I think EM has said too much and winds up with trying to defend/ explain,/ apologize for things they should have never said.
"we're experiencing a short delay" is better than people with scheduling conflicts, a few days before the event is announced. There have been quite a few EM statements, that could have been truthful,i.e. not lying (as some would suggest), instead of giving themselves deadlines they were unable to meet.
With the one exception (for me anyway) the "sense" that the money was secured.

Your very last sentence contains the single reason I changed my perception of Paul Elio and trust in Elio Motors. Prior, I trusted Paul Elio would get the Elio to production and now I hope he does.

 

[eliothegreat]

Some thoughtful commentary. I like that. Even good ideas, carried to extremes, can be harmful. Keeping your mouth shut, for instance. Not sharing essential information can harm others. At times, keeping your mouth shut implies agreement or support. That has been proven repeatedly throughout history, and has been tried through the courts.

The "discretion is the better part of valor" has often been used as an excuse for cowardice, but I do not believe that it was intended to be such. I am not convinced that there always need be a choice between honesty and discretion. With skill, in many, if not all situations, it is possible to be both discrete and honest. Some decisions require great thought, study and even prayer to seek out the best solution.

As far as elio motors go, my "need to know" is based on internal motivations, not on any outside force. My pursuit of knowledge about this project has led me to conclusions that are clearly unpopular with the prevailing opinions of this forum. Or at least the official prevailing opinions of this forum. I do not believe that there are many, if any, persons who had reservations back when the announced production date was March 2015 who have made additional reservations since the January 15 announcement of funding problems and the production date slippage.

Does a newbie who just came across this project "need to know" about the delays? The lack of funding? The failed funding attempts? The fact that the prototype is just a show car with no ABS, EFI, IAV engine, production dash, a/c, sound deadening, etc? That elio does not have enough left of the $65M that they have raised to build a functional prototype?

Anyway, back to "honesty is the best policy". It has been my observation that every public announcement by elio and their staff must be parsed very carefully to even approach what the truth is. At some point, we have all had friends like Eddie Haskell, who we knew would say whatever they felt suited them best at the moment. When you regularly have to make excuses and explanations for the things elio says and does, that should be a hint that something is fundamentally askew. Honesty in business doesn't usually attract much attention. Dishonesty tends to get noticed after a while. elio motors has been building their reputation step by step for years. Some see that as a reputation for honesty and competence, while others see it as a reputation for dishonesty and incompetence.

 

[WilliamH]

Some thoughtful commentary. I like that. Even good ideas, carried to extremes, can be harmful. Keeping your mouth shut, for instance. Not sharing essential information can harm others. At times, keeping your mouth shut implies agreement or support. That has been proven repeatedly throughout history, and has been tried through the courts.

The "discretion is the better part of valor" has often been used as an excuse for cowardice, but I do not believe that it was intended to be such. I am not convinced that there always need be a choice between honesty and discretion. With skill, in many, if not all situations, it is possible to be both discrete and honest. Some decisions require great thought, study and even prayer to seek out the best solution.

As far as elio motors go, my "need to know" is based on internal motivations, not on any outside force. My pursuit of knowledge about this project has led me to conclusions that are clearly unpopular with the prevailing opinions of this forum. Or at least the official prevailing opinions of this forum. I do not believe that there are many, if any, persons who had reservations back when the announced production date was March 2015 who have made additional reservations since the January 15 announcement of funding problems and the production date slippage.

Does a newbie who just came across this project "need to know" about the delays? The lack of funding? The failed funding attempts? The fact that the prototype is just a show car with no ABS, EFI, IAV engine, production dash, a/c, sound deadening, etc? That elio does not have enough left of the $65M that they have raised to build a functional prototype?

Anyway, back to "honesty is the best policy". It has been my observation that every public announcement by elio and their staff must be parsed very carefully to even approach what the truth is. At some point, we have all had friends like Eddie Haskell, who we knew would say whatever they felt suited them best at the moment. When you regularly have to make excuses and explanations for the things elio says and does, that should be a hint that something is fundamentally askew. Honesty in business doesn't usually attract much attention. Dishonesty tends to get noticed after a while. elio motors has been building their reputation step by step for years. Some see that as a reputation for honesty and competence, while others see it as a reputation for dishonesty and incompetence.

My guess (and it's only a guess) is that none of the people busily defending PF have ever found themselves in the position of being the President of an organization that is facing a lawsuit where the Corporation and each individual Board member is a named defendant.
You can't defend yourself and your reputation because if you do that defense can be included in the suit. And you can't defend the corporation because anyone you talk to may carry information back to the plaintiff which could be damaging to the suit. And heaven help you if you make a statement and the date is a day or two off and the results aren't what someone wants to hear. And never talk about potential financial repercussions since too many people won't even grasp the concept of a four or five year infrastructure plan.
As a result, you have to stop talking to people who don't know how to keep their mouths shut and well intentioned people who try to be peace makers. I lost many friends, and two years after the suit my brother and I are finally talking again.

 

[Neal]

Some thoughtful commentary. I like that. Even good ideas, carried to extremes, can be harmful. Keeping your mouth shut, for instance. Not sharing essential information can harm others. At times, keeping your mouth shut implies agreement or support. That has been proven repeatedly throughout history, and has been tried through the courts.

The "discretion is the better part of valor" has often been used as an excuse for cowardice, but I do not believe that it was intended to be such. I am not convinced that there always need be a choice between honesty and discretion. With skill, in many, if not all situations, it is possible to be both discrete and honest. Some decisions require great thought, study and even prayer to seek out the best solution.

As far as elio motors go, my "need to know" is based on internal motivations, not on any outside force. My pursuit of knowledge about this project has led me to conclusions that are clearly unpopular with the prevailing opinions of this forum. Or at least the official prevailing opinions of this forum. I do not believe that there are many, if any, persons who had reservations back when the announced production date was March 2015 who have made additional reservations since the January 15 announcement of funding problems and the production date slippage.

Does a newbie who just came across this project "need to know" about the delays? The lack of funding? The failed funding attempts? The fact that the prototype is just a show car with no ABS, EFI, IAV engine, production dash, a/c, sound deadening, etc? That elio does not have enough left of the $65M that they have raised to build a functional prototype?

Anyway, back to "honesty is the best policy". It has been my observation that every public announcement by elio and their staff must be parsed very carefully to even approach what the truth is. At some point, we have all had friends like Eddie Haskell, who we knew would say whatever they felt suited them best at the moment. When you regularly have to make excuses and explanations for the things elio says and does, that should be a hint that something is fundamentally askew. Honesty in business doesn't usually attract much attention. Dishonesty tends to get noticed after a while. elio motors has been building their reputation step by step for years. Some see that as a reputation for honesty and competence, while others see it as a reputation for dishonesty and incompetence.

I think you are missing the big picture and the true reason why everyone is "jumping" on Past Fanatic. There is a huge difference is spreading "truth" versus spreading venom. The truth needs to be said and people need to do research before putting money down. What PF does is spout half truths mixed with bitterness and hateful diatribe. You can defend him all you want and although your writing style is totally different, you "two" joined within days of each other and many of your posts are written defending PF, so I have doubts about things. But anyway...