Metal...body?

[CrimsonEclipse]

Actually, Crimson,
this couldn't be further from the truth. It can take multiple dies to form one particular panel - say a fender. The process of forming a fender can take up to six different die-sets. If the facility @ Shreveport had several multi-ton presses, with multiple die-set runs, left and right fenders can theoretically be formed (stamped out) during the same run (since only a left-hand door - no need for a right). It again depends upon both the press limitations and the die sets available.. Since these dies are custom made for each individual panel, there is a massive initial cost incurred in their production alone. Don't forget to take into account the cranes for moving the multi-ton rolls of cold-rolled steel into place for the shear dies. I guess the point I wish to make here, is that theoretically, stamping steel panels out one after the other seems like it would be a faster process - in my experience, it can often take much longer than the bumpers we formed from plastic pellets adjacent to the stamping presses. This doesn't even take into consideration the actual cost of all those multiple die sets, the change-over time for changing them out to make a different panel run, of the hours or days of downtime if any one of those individual dies are damaged during any multi-ton press strike. Believe me when I tell you this..a huge multinational conglomerate such as Fuji Heavy Industries (parent company of Subaru), General Motors or Mercedes can afford the steel stamping process. Fotr'the big boys', having a finished car roll off the assembly line every 54 seconds is what they demand, but a small start-up like Elio Motors would be staring at certain death if something were to go south during start-up of this new venture.
It's a lot to take into consideration. One of the thousands of hurdles a new venture of this type must plan for and overcome in order to successfully ramp-up to the projected production levels they are seeking.

Interesting information. I will re-consider my position.

I think the waxing only helps w/ paint oxidation. It's the steel oxidation (rust) that is my concern. When you have a steel fender say, and a stone is thrown up on the underside. said stone scratches the rust preventive measures applied during the pre-paint process (whether that be sprayed on, dipped, or e-coated), what then happens is oxidation (rust) that is more often than not unseen - until major damage is already done. Unless, of course, you plan on completely disassembling your Elio a couple times a year to check for this. A plastic, polymer, or resin exterior panel eliminates this possibility. I have a 1998 Saturn SC that has no rust (or dings)on the fenders, doors, or rear quarters.The hood, roof and trunklid are a different story (due to hailstorm damage). the wheels will fall off the car before those plastic panels even need resprayed.

I've seen what UV can do to plastic panels in the lower latitudes. (embrittlement, discoloration)
Nissan Trucks had a plastic grill and bumper and they would be gone long before the rust would form.
I would like more data on the long term durability of plastic panels.
I suppose a UV coating embedded in the resin might help.

 

[NSTG8R]

Interesting information. I will re-consider my position.



I've seen what UV can do to plastic panels in the lower latitudes. (embrittlement, discoloration)
Nissan Trucks had a plastic grill and bumper and they would be gone long before the rust would form.
I would like more data on the long term durability of plastic panels.
I suppose a UV coating embedded in the resin might help.

From a SMC manufacturing website:

There is more on the subject on the site, but I thought this part kind of addressed your concerns.

http://www.wauscomp.com/processes/smc/

Why SMC Glass Reinforced Composites?
Durability
SMC parts offer superior mechanical and surface appearance. SMC benefits offers very high volume production ability, excellent part reproducibility, and is cost effective due to low labor requirements and reduced scrap production. SMC structures made of composites have a long life and need little maintenance. Composites are corrosion resistant with matrices and binders that prevent environmental attack on fibers and increase resistance to corrosive environments.

Performance
Composites combine high strength and low weight, are non-corrosive and have thermal and electrical insulation properties. Composites can be machined like wood using diamond-tool equipment.

Excellent Cosmetic Finish
Composites can be designed with a high level of surface detail. Parts can be offered in various thickness either coated with high gloss gel coats or with a paintable surface.

 

[Ekh]

I would be surprised if Elio doesn't at least start off having someone else make composite panels for them... I'm talking about the molded plastic panels and not fiberglass. I can almost see shipments of fenders arriving, being placed on the paint line and later assembled to the Elio. It IS an assembly plant, you know.

That was the plan and still may be.

 

[Frim]

Okay. Fair enough. I was talking about the surface rust that bubbles the paint up. The underside... well, you are on your own there though I may spray some good understating or maybe even bed liner.

When I purchased by 2003 Subaru Baja In OKC, I was able to buy additional undercoating. It was sprayed in at the dealership. It this unusual or do other dealership offer this?

 

[booboo]

I got the stamped steel can reply.
booboo:
I frequent elioowners.com . Much chatter there seems to be about steel vs composite body panels . My vote is for composite if possible. Really have enjoyed all the new video's and excitement. Thank You,
Elio:
Thanks for reaching out to us!
Sheet molded composite is still the design direction but we are looking at other materials, i.e. steel and other automotive skin materials that could help us make the vehicle better, safer, more reliable and improve upon our four tenets. All changes and potential improvements must fit within our four tenets and our existing timeline to be considered.
Let us know if you have any other questions.

Thanks,
Elio Team

 

[Maurtis]

When I purchased by 2003 Subaru Baja In OKC, I was able to buy additional undercoating. It was sprayed in at the dealership. It this unusual or do other dealership offer this?

It is common depending on the area you live in. For a while it was seen as an unnecessary upcharge since modern cars already come with an undercoating of some sort, as well as paint and fabric protection. Dealers would use them to pad their profit and since it is hard for the buyer to tell if anything was actually done they became seen as a waste of money. There are legit aftermarket undercoating and in places where rust is a big issue, I would assume would be worth the cost.

Here in TX, I have not been offered those services in the last decade for a new car but I bet I could have requested them.

 

[Maurtis]

I got the stamped steel can reply.
booboo:
I frequent elioowners.com . Much chatter there seems to be about steel vs composite body panels . My vote is for composite if possible. Really have enjoyed all the new video's and excitement. Thank You,
Elio:
Thanks for reaching out to us!
Sheet molded composite is still the design direction but we are looking at other materials, i.e. steel and other automotive skin materials that could help us make the vehicle better, safer, more reliable and improve upon our four tenets. All changes and potential improvements must fit within our four tenets and our existing timeline to be considered.
Let us know if you have any other questions.

Thanks,
Elio Team

Someone else here got that same response, I think it was Coss? Good to have another confirmation, though. Thanks!

 

[Elio Amazed]

I got the stamped steel can reply.
booboo:
I frequent elioowners.com . Much chatter there seems to be about steel vs composite body panels . My vote is for composite if possible. Really have enjoyed all the new video's and excitement. Thank You,
Elio:
Thanks for reaching out to us!
Sheet molded composite is still the design direction but we are looking at other materials, i.e. steel and other automotive skin materials that could help us make the vehicle better, safer, more reliable and improve upon our four tenets. All changes and potential improvements must fit within our four tenets and our existing timeline to be considered.
Let us know if you have any other questions.

Thanks,
Elio Team

Thanks booboo.
I think EM should consider making the outer body panels from mumbo-jumbo and smoke-n-mirrors.
They seem to have an enough of those materials to go around.

 

[booboo]

Thanks booboo.
I think EM should consider making the outer body panels from mumbo-jumbo and smoke-n-mirrors.
They seem to have an enough of those materials to go around.

Mumbo-jumbo and smoke-n-mirrors ? I believe the Central Planners of the world have a monopoly on that stuff.

 

[Mel]

When I purchased by 2003 Subaru Baja In OKC, I was able to buy additional undercoating. It was sprayed in at the dealership. It this unusual or do other dealership offer this?

In most cases it's a rip-off. The undercoating is too thin to do much good. And 95% of the time it is done at the factory so the dealership gets 100% mark-up. I had a dealership try to slip this in on me once and declined it. I was there when the vehicle arrived and the undercoating was already on it.