Limits ….

[Charlie G]

I think 70+ highway mpg (not EPA estimate but my highway driving at around 75 mph) would satisfy me.

I'll be very interested to see how that stacks up.

 

[JNR]

I'll be very interested to see how that stacks up.

Me too. My Civic is rated 26/36 city/highway, I drive 80% miles highway at upwards of 80 mph, I try to limit to 75 mph but need to keep up some times. I get 34-35 mpg in the summer with all season radials and 31-33 in the winter with my snow tires. I tried hypermiling for a tank a few years ago and got 37 mpg. My version of hypermiling was max 65 mph on the highway and mild acceleration when no one behind me, but normal acceleration when people were behind me.

 

[goofyone]

The EPA highway fuel number must be 75+ for EM to even qualify for the ATVM loan and from the sounds of it they have plenty of margin for that number. I would be perfectly happy paying $7500 for 75 MPG rating. I would be perfectly happy paying $8000 for 80 MPG rating as well. I would even very likely be willing to pay $10K base for the Elio even if it were "only" rated at 75 MPG.

 

[Devilstower]

Always interested to hear from an Aptera reservationist. Is that the main thing you remember, it seemed like they were always wanting to add just one more item? On a post-mortem interview with the head honchos, they said that they should have tried to raise their own money, instead of depending on the ATVM loan and then changing their mind to a 4-wheel version just so the Aptera was called a car in the ATVM's eyes.

I was a very early supporter on the Aptera (had a low three digit reservation number). At first, things seemed to go well, with prototypes hitting the road, lots of video from inside the little "factory" where the shells were being made, nice little Youtubes of laughing engineers tooling around in the latest test version, and a focus on getting the vehicle done on time. It was only after they started to attract significant attention, moved to a bigger facility, brought in the new management team under Neil Hannemann (a sports car guy who was involved, among other things, with the Dodge Viper and Ford GT) when things started to shift. The original group of enthusiasts had been willing, even anxious, to embrace the machine with all of it's quirks, but the new team kept insisting that it "wasn't car like enough." It didn't drive enough like a car. It wasn't fast enough "for American tastes." It didn't have windows that rolled down far enough for the drive-through. Gradually, every little piece of the car got bigger, and the quick iteration of prototypes marching toward production turned into a creep of minor design announcements and pleas for more investment.

All of this happened quite quickly in real world terms -- from the first "complete" prototype in 2007, the new management in 2008, and the failure to secure more investments and the ATVM loan rejection in 2009. That was pretty well the end of things. They still dragged around, pretending that they were going to build something until mid-2011, but it was actually over well before that.

If they had produced more copies of the Aptera Typ-1 prototype (which followed the first prototype only by a few months and was on the road in late 2007), I'd have happily bought it. So would thousands of other people who had signed up by then (FWIW, I don't think Aptera ever got much above 3000 reservations. They sometimes showed 5000 on their site, but they allowed cancellations and didn't factor those into the displayed value.) . But Aptera became fixated on selling not thousands, but hundreds of thousands. The Typ-1 to 2e redesign was pretty much a ground-up rewrite of the whole project, starting at just the time they were actually supposed to start delivering product. The Aptera 2e would have undoubtedly been a very nice vehicle, but getting it made would have taken a lot more than the $25 million or so that Aptera burned.

 

[Jeff Porter]

Me too. My Civic is rated 26/36 city/highway, I drive 80% miles highway at upwards of 80 mph, I try to limit to 75 mph but need to keep up some times. I get 34-35 mpg in the summer with all season radials and 31-33 in the winter with my snow tires. I tried hypermiling for a tank a few years ago and got 37 mpg. My version of hypermiling was max 65 mph on the highway and mild acceleration when no one behind me, but normal acceleration when people were behind me.

Hypermiling, I've never heard of that term. Interesting!

 

[bowers baldwin]

I was a very early supporter on the Aptera (had a low three digit reservation number). At first, things seemed to go well, with prototypes hitting the road, lots of video from inside the little "factory" where the shells were being made, nice little Youtubes of laughing engineers tooling around in the latest test version, and a focus on getting the vehicle done on time. It was only after they started to attract significant attention, moved to a bigger facility, brought in the new management team under Neil Hannemann (a sports car guy who was involved, among other things, with the Dodge Viper and Ford GT) when things started to shift. The original group of enthusiasts had been willing, even anxious, to embrace the machine with all of it's quirks, but the new team kept insisting that it "wasn't car like enough." It didn't drive enough like a car. It wasn't fast enough "for American tastes." It didn't have windows that rolled down far enough for the drive-through. Gradually, every little piece of the car got bigger, and the quick iteration of prototypes marching toward production turned into a creep of minor design announcements and pleas for more investment.

All of this happened quite quickly in real world terms -- from the first "complete" prototype in 2007, the new management in 2008, and the failure to secure more investments and the ATVM loan rejection in 2009. That was pretty well the end of things. They still dragged around, pretending that they were going to build something until mid-2011, but it was actually over well before that.

If they had produced more copies of the Aptera Typ-1 prototype (which followed the first prototype only by a few months and was on the road in late 2007), I'd have happily bought it. So would thousands of other people who had signed up by then (FWIW, I don't think Aptera ever got much above 3000 reservations. They sometimes showed 5000 on their site, but they allowed cancellations and didn't factor those into the displayed value.) . But Aptera became fixated on selling not thousands, but hundreds of thousands. The Typ-1 to 2e redesign was pretty much a ground-up rewrite of the whole project, starting at just the time they were actually supposed to start delivering product. The Aptera 2e would have undoubtedly been a very nice vehicle, but getting it made would have taken a lot more than the $25 million or so that Aptera burned.

It's my understanding the the switch from rear wheel drive to front wheel drive was what sucked up all the $ and ultimately killed the project, what kind of insight did you have being a reservation holder give you? did they email updates or anything like Elio or where you pretty much in the dark until the end?

 

[Jeff Porter]

I was a very early supporter on the Aptera (had a low three digit reservation number). At first, things seemed to go well, with prototypes hitting the road, lots of video from inside the little "factory" where the shells were being made, nice little Youtubes of laughing engineers tooling around in the latest test version, and a focus on getting the vehicle done on time. It was only after they started to attract significant attention, moved to a bigger facility, brought in the new management team under Neil Hannemann (a sports car guy who was involved, among other things, with the Dodge Viper and Ford GT) when things started to shift. The original group of enthusiasts had been willing, even anxious, to embrace the machine with all of it's quirks, but the new team kept insisting that it "wasn't car like enough." It didn't drive enough like a car. It wasn't fast enough "for American tastes." It didn't have windows that rolled down far enough for the drive-through. Gradually, every little piece of the car got bigger, and the quick iteration of prototypes marching toward production turned into a creep of minor design announcements and pleas for more investment.

All of this happened quite quickly in real world terms -- from the first "complete" prototype in 2007, the new management in 2008, and the failure to secure more investments and the ATVM loan rejection in 2009. That was pretty well the end of things. They still dragged around, pretending that they were going to build something until mid-2011, but it was actually over well before that.

If they had produced more copies of the Aptera Typ-1 prototype (which followed the first prototype only by a few months and was on the road in late 2007), I'd have happily bought it. So would thousands of other people who had signed up by then (FWIW, I don't think Aptera ever got much above 3000 reservations. They sometimes showed 5000 on their site, but they allowed cancellations and didn't factor those into the displayed value.) . But Aptera became fixated on selling not thousands, but hundreds of thousands. The Typ-1 to 2e redesign was pretty much a ground-up rewrite of the whole project, starting at just the time they were actually supposed to start delivering product. The Aptera 2e would have undoubtedly been a very nice vehicle, but getting it made would have taken a lot more than the $25 million or so that Aptera burned.

Very fascinating! Thanks so much for sharing. For a few reasons, I've enjoyed researching the Aptera and hearing about it. For me, my understanding of the Aptera rise and fall helps me to understand what and why Elio is doing what they are doing. It also helps me to believe in Elio, since they are doing things very differently from Aptera.

From what I remember, all of Aptera's reservations were folks from California. The vehicle was meant to be driven in the climate that southern CA provides. And the new management team sort of seemed to be the beginning of the end, because new mgmt meant changes to the design, which meant a need for more money, which meant a dependence on the ATVM loan, and unfortunately the loan was never going to happen. The loan initially was only for cars, and since the original Aptera was 3 wheels, no go. Then when the design change to 4 wheels happened, ATVM said Aptera needed to come up with 80 million of their own $.

Would love to hear anything more you remember and want to share.

 

[ecdriver711]

I followed the Aptera too. I did not have much hope for success when the board ousted the Aptera creator and main designer. Paul Elio has the right idea; don't forfeit control.

 

[Puna bob]

I followed the Aptera too. I did not have much hope for success when the board ousted the Aptera creator and main designer. Paul Elio has the right idea; don't forfeit control.

I also held reservations for the Aptera but bailed out after new management team moved in.

 

[Ty]

I'll pay up to $10,000 but if it doesn't have the Lord Elgin dash, I'm out at any price...







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