I Have Given Up On Elio, Have You?

[RSchneider]

The thing that frustrates me about the Elio situation is not loosing my deposit.... that's peanuts. What I can't stand is the fact that the Elio was (is) a great idea that's going no where. I see no serious problem with Paul's original plan, it all made sense to me. Due to financial and legal problems with Elio motors, which I don't fully understand, I can see why no one has come along and rescued the company. But that doesn't stop some company with the knowhow and deep pockets to take the Elio concept and run with it. I'll bet that Elon Musk's Tesla could have an Elio like car on the market in less than 2 years. So, why doesn't anyone do it? The number of people willing to put up a deposit... sight unseen... for an Elio, surely shows there would be a large market. I guess I'm just paranoid, but I can't help thinking there's some hidden power that wants to make sure it doesn't happen. Who stands to profit by there NOT being an Elio?

Elio had a lack of interest and Paul was hedging his bet that if he got a plant, did lots of videos, then toured the car, after that apply for the ATVM loan a second time, the deposits would come in like crazy and fund his project. The interest from the public was lacking, the IPO was mediocre and too many bad decisions made in the early days, killed the company. Add into that, zero proof it would get 84 mpg or even being built for the price he claimed and then make a profit.

We see this being played out today with Arcimoto. It was costing them about three times to build it as for what they sold it for. Now it's about two times. The interest was not there and thus the ramp plant was never going to happen as the sales didn't take off like they told us it would.

I feel that Aptera is in the same boat. They are looking at huge numbers that seemed to be pulled out of their rear end. Too many of these startups try to use Henry Ford and Elon Musk as why they will be next. Yet they just come out with delay after delay after delay. Only to promise (yes that's what it is with tricky wording) yet never deliver.

In my opinion, the Elio was never going to give 84 mpg or be able to be sold for $7450. Way too low. Yet it's a great idea but not realistic. Plus it came from a person with a opaque past when it came to mass production. It took years for Tesla to get to the volume these people dream yet we thought it was going to happen overnight.

 

[Rickb]

Elio had a lack of interest and Paul was hedging his bet that if he got a plant, did lots of videos, then toured the car, after that apply for the ATVM loan a second time, the deposits would come in like crazy and fund his project. The interest from the public was lacking, the IPO was mediocre and too many bad decisions made in the early days, killed the company. Add into that, zero proof it would get 84 mpg or even being built for the price he claimed and then make a profit.

We see this being played out today with Arcimoto. It was costing them about three times to build it as for what they sold it for. Now it's about two times. The interest was not there and thus the ramp plant was never going to happen as the sales didn't take off like they told us it would.

I feel that Aptera is in the same boat. They are looking at huge numbers that seemed to be pulled out of their rear end. Too many of these startups try to use Henry Ford and Elon Musk as why they will be next. Yet they just come out with delay after delay after delay. Only to promise (yes that's what it is with tricky wording) yet never deliver.

In my opinion, the Elio was never going to give 84 mpg or be able to be sold for $7450. Way too low. Yet it's a great idea but not realistic. Plus it came from a person with an opaque past when it came to mass production. It took years for Tesla to get to the volume these people dream yet we thought it was going to happen overnight.

Arcimoto crossed the production finish line, unlike Elio, so no comparison. However, Arcimoto lost focus after the production start. They seem to be hanging on, but sadly I don’t think they are going to make it based on their current direct to consumer sales model, to many custom color options in the ordering and assembly process, parts/mechanical issues not being fixed, missed production scale to lower costs, and many owners are experiencing parts, service, and long waits for service creating DIY repair issues, after 3 years of ownership. The good news is they still love their FUVs.

 

[JEBar]

that doesn't stop some company with the knowhow and deep pockets to take the Elio concept and run with it.

Mark BEX is doing just that .... his pockets are deep enough to be bringing his Elio type reverse trike to production .... my belief is that once his hits the market, others will try and jump in .... where I see them having trouble competing with his small overhead

 

[Interested]

The thing that frustrates me about the Elio situation is not loosing my deposit.... that's peanuts. What I can't stand is the fact that the Elio was (is) a great idea that's going no where. I see no serious problem with Paul's original plan, it all made sense to me. Due to financial and legal problems with Elio motors, which I don't fully understand, I can see why no one has come along and rescued the company. But that doesn't stop some company with the knowhow and deep pockets to take the Elio concept and run with it. I'll bet that Elon Musk's Tesla could have an Elio like car on the market in less than 2 years. So, why doesn't anyone do it? The number of people willing to put up a deposit... sight unseen... for an Elio, surely shows there would be a large market. I guess I'm just paranoid, but I can't help thinking there's some hidden power that wants to make sure it doesn't happen. Who stands to profit by there NOT being an Elio?

If your only choice is a current (expensive) model then that is what you will buy. If the manufacturers made an inexpensive car it would cut into their profits. With the UAW on strike for more money, then that will be even less profits. I don't see any way for the big makers to justify making an inexpensive car. (By inexpensive I mean under $20,000 USD.) It will take someone who is willing to have less profit to make. So the big holdup is how to lower the costs. Hire less expensive workers (as in overseas), develop a simpler way to make (anybody remember the inflatable car?) or possibly get the government to pay for it. (out of our taxes of course!) Pauls problem is that he is unwilling to give up any control of his dream. He would rather see it die. So we must wait and see if Mark and the BEX. It may be that he gets it made but it could face opposition to getting it imported to the USA.

 

[JohnJ]

How's this for an idea? Let the feds put a tax of, say $3,000 a head, on all new cars that get less than 20 mpg. Then take that money and use it to fund a rebate on all new cars that get over 50 mpg.

 

[RSchneider]

How's this for an idea? Let the feds put a tax of, say $3,000 a head, on all new cars that get less than 20 mpg. Then take that money and use it to fund a rebate on all new cars that get over 50 mpg.

We do have the gas guzzler tax. So, all that did was to get the manufacturers to force cars to get above the requirement. Thus the reason why so many automatics as they can program them to do it.

Then, what do you do about EV's?

Idealistic but not realistic.

 

[Sonoran Sam]

How's this for an idea? Let the feds put a tax of, say $3,000 a head, on all new cars that get less than 20 mpg. Then take that money and use it to fund a rebate on all new cars that get over 50 mpg.

I think there is already a system in place called CAFE.
Automotive manufacturers can get "credits" for vehicles that get over the CAFE standard to offset the vehicles that get under the CAFE standard.
I'm not sure, but I think they can sell excess CAFE credits to other manufacturers.

 

[Rickb]

I think there is already a system in place called CAFE.
Automotive manufacturers can get "credits" for vehicles that get over the CAFE standard to offset the vehicles that get under the CAFE standard.
I'm not sure, but I think they can sell excess CAFE credits to other manufacturers.

 

[Sonoran Sam]

View attachment 26719

WOW!! I didn't know that.
Perhaps this new CAFE requirement will open the door for more 3 wheel vehicles, as they would be considered motorcycles -- not cars.

 

[RSchneider]

At least there is a lobbyist group devoted to a thing like this. Give them money and email them on how things like the Elio can be made a reality. I think Joel needs to hear from everyone as he is the one we all know, works for Elio Motors. He can use his knowledge of autocycles to get this done. Since he works for Elio Motors, he knows what it takes to get the job done. I suggest you contact them at this website.
https://theautocyclealliance.com/