Hello... From Across The Atlantic!

[Jeff Porter]

Amazes me that Paul Elio had to develop his own engine. Must cost a fortune. Daimler is said to invest 3 billion euro in new diesel technology. Have always wondered why the heck it must cost billions, instead of say tens of millions...
Back to Elio, there must be dozens of last-generation, frugal two- and three-cylinder ICEs out there.
IMO, automakers should jump to the occasion of lending engines to Elio, knowing that their ICEs have had their longest time...

Hoping your search on the engine development particulars will match up with what I remember:

• From what I remember Paul Elio saying, he wants:
  • An engine that is specifically designed for his vehicle; car-makers today make an engine that is good for several, not optimized for one model; thus the HP, torque, etc. will be perfect for the trike;
  • To be in with the designer (IAV) and builder (Linamar?) of the engine, then he has some control over quantity, and won't be at the mercy of an "outside" engine provider; imagine the frustration when you've got an order for 70,000 engines and you've no control on when they materialize at your loading docks;
  • There may be other points that other forum members can provide!

 

[Coss]

Hoping your search on the engine development particulars will match up with what I remember:

• From what I remember Paul Elio saying, he wants:
  • An engine that is specifically designed for his vehicle; car-makers today make an engine that is good for several, not optimized for one model; thus the HP, torque, etc. will be perfect for the trike;
  • To be in with the designer (IAV) and builder (Linamar?) of the engine, then he has some control over quantity, and won't be at the mercy of an "outside" engine provider; imagine the frustration when you've got an order for 70,000 engines and you've no control on when they materialize at your loading docks;
  • There may be other points that other forum members can provide!

I think that covers the most important parts.

 

[voyager]

Hoping your search on the engine development particulars will match up with what I remember:

• From what I remember Paul Elio saying, he wants:
  • An engine that is specifically designed for his vehicle; car-makers today make an engine that is good for several, not optimized for one model; thus the HP, torque, etc. will be perfect for the trike;
  • To be in with the designer (IAV) and builder (Linamar?) of the engine, then he has some control over quantity, and won't be at the mercy of an "outside" engine provider; imagine the frustration when you've got an order for 70,000 engines and you've no control on when they materialize at your loading docks;
  • There may be other points that other forum members can provide!

That seems like a bit odd to me, since you can tinker with engines (torque and hp) by simply adapting the software. No way, you can produce an engine as advanced as say Ford's often praised 1.0 liter 3 cylinder. Although I do understand that you don't want to be dependent on the mercy of an engine provider.

 

[Rickb]

I always thought it was odd that the most expensive part in the Elio wasn't an off-the shelf production engine freeing up the millions paid to IAV to be used for E-Build's/ testing, and ramping up production. EM is dependent on the mercy of all their parts partners.......the engine would be no different.

The only possible way for parts independence would be EM's ability to manufacture all parts for the Elio in-house.

 

[voyager]

The only possible way for parts independence would be EM's ability to manufacture all parts for the Elio in-house.

Never heard of a manufacturer that sets out to produce affordable vehicles making everything in-house. Well... Arcimoto perhaps.
But I agree, that an off the shelf last generation power plant would have freed up a lot of resources. IMO, it would require an engine supplier to become involved as a major partner. And that can only be arranged higher up the chain of command of that particular OEM, preferably upon request by major shareholders.

Electric motors might be slightly different. ICEs are so interconnected with car making itself. Electric motor technology may be sourced from other types of OEMs, not persé car makers.

 

[wizard of ahs]

FTRC - Fly The Road Club. Started back in 2007 by a group of tilting three wheeler enthusiasts supporting the development of the VentureOne. The V1 Concept turned to vaporware 4-5 years later. '07 is about the same time I happened across the Elio. A long time ago.[/QUOTE]

http://www.hybridcars.com/ventureone-plugin-hybrid-commuter/

 

[outsydthebox]

But I agree, that an off the shelf last generation power plant would have freed up a lot of resources.

This point has been explained (add nauseum)...The ''engine" that came the closest to what EM required was the 25 year old Geo Metro engine. The problem: The Molds?... no longer exist. The dies?...no longer exist. EM's options?...Pay for engineers to "copy" 25 year old technology, or Pay for engineers to design an engine that took the "best aspects" of the Metro engine, and make a better engine. Think "long term". This was the best choice for EM and the best choice for us.

IMO, it would require an engine supplier to become involved as a major partner.

Isn't this what EM has done?

 

[Rickb]

FTRC - Fly The Road Club. Started back in 2007 by a group of tilting three wheeler enthusiasts supporting the development of the VentureOne. The V1 Concept turned to vaporware 4-5 years later. '07 is about the same time I happened across the Elio. A long time ago.

http://www.hybridcars.com/ventureone-plugin-hybrid-commuter/[/QUOTE]
Yes it evolved quickly from Ventureone to Persu just before turning to vaporware. They never had a proof of concept beyond a used CarverOne.

http://www.flytheroad.com

 

[voyager]

http://www.hybridcars.com/ventureone-plugin-hybrid-commuter/

Yes it evolved quickly from Ventureone to Persu just before turning to vaporware. They never had a proof of concept beyond a used CarverOne.
[/QUOTE]

Hi RickB,

Let's establish the fact that for various reasons the two front-wheels / one wheel aft is the much more desirable layout. After all those years you might say that what Carver tried to do is have a narrow cabin that can 'dart' freely on the basis of a two-wheeled trolley in the rear.

 

[Rickb]

Yes it evolved quickly from Ventureone to Persu just before turning to vaporware. They never had a proof of concept beyond a used CarverOne.

Hi RickB,

Let's establish the fact that for various reasons the two front-wheels / one wheel aft is the much more desirable layout. After all those years you might say that what Carver tried to do is have a narrow cabin that can 'dart' freely on the basis of a two-wheeled trolley in the rear.[/QUOTE]
Voyager, I agree. However, one of my favorite narrow cabin tilter commuters had four wheels as The Smera darts around in this video: