Funding Refused By Paul Elio

[RUCRAYZE]

Well Paul's status as a risk taker certainly leaves little to doubt, does it? (Note to self: do not play poker for large stakes with Paul Elio).

I invested what I can afford to lose. I invested because if this does go I'll nail a nice multiple. I mostly I invested because eventually Paul will acrete around himself enough folks who stand to lose a lot more than I will if it does fail that he'll have to make some compromises if he genuinely wishes to succeed and make everyone happy. The real question we need to ask at this point is whether he's crazy or not. Ego has a funny way of infusing otherwise obvious rational decision-making with an element of, how shall we shall, um, unpredictability and self-destructiveness. If Paul gets to the go/no-go point where has only two choices, rename the damn thing a Fiat, sell gazzilions of 'em, and change the planet for the better, or take us all down with him, who's to say he won't do the later? There is no way of knowing for sure, is there?

Steve Jobs-
Gates
Tesla
Alex Bell
Columbus
Henry Ford
Harley and Davidson
etc. etc ..........CRAZY?????

 

[RUCRAYZE]

XI:XXXVI night all

 

[goofyone]

Pistonboy,

I think you have made your case well and plainly and I cannot add much, even nearly five months after the fact. Paul is clearly a visionary and deserves considerable respect for having gotten this far. But respect didn't garner him production-enabling funding since your initial complaint in June and it isn't likely to do so in the future either. No one is going to give him majorty-level resources for minority level control. That's just not how it is done in a marketplace for capital, where offerings vie to provide the best risk-reward balance. ATVM is clearly NOT the answer though. The rules are pretty clear: you have to be financial viable before you qualify and Elio either does NOT meet that criteria or might meet the criteria. At this point Elio Motor's best shot at ATVM would be to spend less to get into partial production - maybe no delivery centers and all deliveries at at the factory - and then make the case that they need the extra money to expand production. But this is just my idea and could be just as windy as he current plans.

What you see as a simple interpretation of the phrase "financially viable" is NOT how the DOE interprets that same phrase. The reason why I can say that with certainty is that the DOE was kind enough to attempt to head off this very conversation by making their interpretation very clear in the ATVM Loan Guidance document.

According to the DOE guidelines for the ATVM loan, "Financially viable" essentially means that the company must be solvent and present a business plan which is deemed by the DOE to have a 'reasonable prospect' of paying back the loan.

The second part of the funding statement also confuses people as "additional federal funding" means exactly what it says in that the financial plan cannot include any additional federal funding besides the ATVM loan.

3) APPLICANT FINANCIAL ELIGIBILITY [10 CFR 611.100(A)(2)]:
In order to be financially eligible under the ATVMLP, the applicant “must be financially viable without the receipt of additional federal funding for the proposed project”.

a) “Financially Viable”: The applicant will be deemed “financially viable” for purposes of 10 CFR 611.100(a)(2) if (i) there is a reasonable prospect that the applicant will be able to pay principal and interest as and when due under the ATVM loan and (ii) the applicant has a net present value that is positive, taking all costs, existing and future, into account. (See definition of “financially viable” in 10 CFR 611.2.) 10 CFR 611.100(c) sets forth a non-exhaustive list of the factors considered by the ATVMLP in determining whether the applicant is financially viable.

b) “Additional Federal Funding”: 10 CFR 611.100(d) lists forms of direct and indirect assistance from the federal government which would be considered “additional federal funding” for purposes of 10 CFR
611.100(a)(2).

http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/...r-Applicants-Final-Version-October-5-2012.pdf

Welcome to dealing with the federal government.

 

[Buckeyejake]

As the government wastes money on the "mating process of bats" or the "use of orange peels to eliminate garbage smell" we all must shake our heads in their ineptness to fund a viable important evolution in our automotive industry. Until we get a couple of senators or representatives backing this project the wheels of government will turn at a snail pace. Folks, contact your senators and representatives. Get their attention and push them on this project.

 

[WilliamH]

As the government wastes money on the "mating process of bats" or the "use of orange peels to eliminate garbage smell" we all must shake our heads in their ineptness to fund a viable important evolution in our automotive industry. Until we get a couple of senators or representatives backing this project the wheels of government will turn at a snail pace. Folks, contact your senators and representatives. Get their attention and push them on this project.

Do you mean we won't get any return on investing in research into shrimp running on treadmills?

 

[Hotscoots]

If the Elio were electric Paul would be MUCH further down the road. After all , despite the Middle East broiling in terrorism , record #s of Americans not employed , the most important issue for POTUS is taxing carbon use .

 

[Ian442]

Ugh please don't let this go all political.

Thanks .

 

[JEBar]

I can't help but continue to be intrigued by the assessments from armchair quarterbacks, self proclaimed authorities on all of the things that Paul and EM are doing wrong .... they do so only having superficial info to go on .... no access to internal records, legal opinion, on going negotiations and such .... as G1 just pointed out, such superficial knowledge can and does lead to erroneous assumptions .... I'll be the first to admit that over time I've seen EM do things that made no sense to me whatsoever but since I don't have access to the info on which the decisions were made, I don't feel qualified to publish judgements/criticisms and present them as facts .... EM will make it or it won't, once the dust settles history will decide .... now for those who are convinced they do in fact know it all, I wonder if they shouldn't start their own company and bring it into production in a manner that will provide a blueprint for others to follow

 

[Frim]

If the Elio were electric Paul would be MUCH further down the road. After all , despite the Middle East broiling in terrorism , record #s of Americans not employed , the most important issue for POTUS is taxing carbon use .

Side remark:
If I were president, I would not like to be called POTUS. I just can't whip up any respect for that moniker.
Frim

 

[CompTrex]

Side remark:
If I were president, I would not like to be called POTUS. I just can't whip up any respect for that moniker.
Frim

You probably shouldn't run for the office of POTUS then.