Friday Blog Is Out

[Made in USA]

Money in the bank does not equal available funds. Put it in this perspective: If Elio had millions in the bank, people would be wondering why they haven't done this or that by now. They need lots of money before starting production. Having a bunch in the bank doesn't make sense right now. What typically happens is that they get another "loan" from Stu or somebody, that will be covered by stock options. Keeping the money low forces them to focus on the task at hand, which is getting the big money.

 

[Rob Croson]

Do you think the biggest cost was the body, frame, drivetrain, or the engine itself? I'd think an engine design, fabrication, testing, and manufacturing would be real complex and particularly expensive.

Engine design itself was fairly low cost. I believe EM paid IAV something on the order of $1.5M~$2M, of which a significant portion was stock options. Linamar will be building the factory to manufacture the engine, so EM will not be paying for it. In exchange, Linamar gets the rights to market and sell the engine to third parties.

 

[Maurtis]

Excellent point. Which 3 cylinder, 50-60 hp motor currently being manufactured where the manufacturer has the ability to pop out an additional, say, 200,000 a year would you recommend? Oh, it also has to be pretty inexpensive.

Maybe someone like Rotax? They have 900cc and above motors like the one used in the Can-Am Spyder. From what I am seeing online, the 998cc from the previous generation Spyder was making 100 HP and 80 lb of torque. At higher RPMs than what one would normally cruise at in a car, but the Elio is not a car.

But then it is not American made, probably pretty expensive, and may not provide the mileage Elio is looking for. That does put a crimp on the "must haves".

Also a problem with motorcycle style motors is that they are often not built to go 100,000+ miles without a rebuild and clutch replacement. Both of which are easier to do on a small motorcycle motor, but probably not great for the Elio image since most modern commuters do not think of a motor as a wear and tear item.

Jeff Johnson is suppose to give technical information about the engine. At last. A very interesting email from EM.

If EM has less than $5,000 in the bank, how do they afford to pay him an keep him around?"

He might just be on part time for free and employed full time elsewhere. Putting in a couple of free hours per week is nothing and I bet he has a pile of stock options that could be worth a lot if things work out.

 

[Ty]

This week's Momentum might address this, Ty. And you make an excellent point! Inexpensive and a couple of hundred thousand units. By many accounts designing this autocycle from the ground up, following Paul's basic 'must haves,' specifically 'off the shelf,' still proved to be mighty expensive and we're still not close to being 'on the road' yet. Do you think the biggest cost was the body, frame, drivetrain, or the engine itself? I'd think an engine design, fabrication, testing, and manufacturing would be real complex and particularly expensive. Wasn't there some chatter about an existing three cylinder engine that was a contender but maybe wasn't a good fit for the DOE ATVM loan but made its way into the running prototype?
200,000 units, overnight, or in short order would be hard to fill by any mfr. but I don't think EM would need that many, too quick. I guess Paul wanted to protect his supply chain so he had control and an unlimited supply of engines, he designed (like the Elgin dash) to have for the car when finally rolling off the assembly line at full speed. After a couple hundred thousand maybe a new engine would be relatively inexpensive, until then, it sure seems super expensive.

Edit: if I wee a new vehicle designer I'd want to design the new engine for my vehicle too! Of course, Id like to do it with my own money as well, but to get OPM it might be best to build something people can buy and drive.

I believe you are referring to the Geo Metro engine which would have actually been an okay motor to have in there. Unfortunately, GM no longer produces it. Also, apparently, the designs weren't available. It wasn't a terribly efficient design and had more power than needed to push around a 1,250 lb. Elio. Of course, many people like more power but the Elio has never been about being a powerful vehicle. Anyway, in the long-run, designing and building your own engine would almost certainly be less expensive than paying someone else to build it.

If you look at the things Paul Elio has done, you can see they've all been done with an eye on the long game. Could they have stuck with their first design with a tube based roll cage frame with panels glued in place? Sure. But, the new uni-body is much more production friendly, strong, and consistent. The same goes for thousands of decisions made along the way. Some will say that Paul is a horrible businessman but I think it's a little premature to make that call. He is starting with basically nothing and building a car company that he maintains control of. That isn't some simple task and is actually one that nobody has been successful with. Tesla? He started out with quite a bit of money so it's hard to compare the two.

Paul could have taken the easy way many times and sure, we could have gotten Elios faster but fast isn't necessarily sustainable. So, let's hope Paul really is playing the long game and knows when it's time to change game plans if necessary.

 

[Ty]

Maybe someone like Rotax? They have 900cc and above motors like the one used in the Can-Am Spyder. From what I am seeing online, the 998cc from the previous generation Spyder was making 100 HP and 80 lb of torque. At higher RPMs than what one would normally cruise at in a car, but the Elio is not a car.

But then it is not American made, probably pretty expensive, and may not provide the mileage Elio is looking for. That does put a crimp on the "must haves".

Also a problem with motorcycle style motors is that they are often not built to go 100,000+ miles without a rebuild and clutch replacement. Both of which are easier to do on a small motorcycle motor, but probably not great for the Elio image since most modern commuters do not think of a motor as a wear and tear item.




He might just be on part time for free and employed full time elsewhere. Putting in a couple of free hours per week is nothing and I bet he has a pile of stock options that could be worth a lot if things work out.

Good points. I doubt they could make enough of the engines anyway but perhaps would license the design. However, that doesn't get past the longevity issue you mentioned. So, let's hope the engine IAV developed is a long-living one.

 

[Johnny Acree]

I have wondered about the engine in my smart. Mit. 900 cc 3 cyl about 55 hp.
EM has said they need power in a specific RPM range to get the MPG numbers they need. Wouldn't that be mainly in the cam?

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

I have wondered about the engine in my smart. Mit. 900 cc 3 cyl about 55 hp.
EM has said they need power in a specific RPM range to get the MPG numbers they need. Wouldn't that be mainly in the cam?

And crankshaft. the Elio engine is a relatively long stroke engine

 

[Johnny Acree]

TGIF
Odds and Ends…
September 15, 2017



Happy Friday Elio’ers! It’s been a challenging couple of weeks for many Americans and we hope this blog finds everyone in the affected areas safe and with minimal impact. These storms have wreaked havoc, yet Americans are nothing if not resilient. It looks like the worst is in the rear view mirror and now is the time to pick up the pieces and rebuild. For those not affected by the storms, it’s important to remember that while the news cameras might go away, the need for aid and support will not. Coming together, we can be even stronger than we were before!

If you’re reading this blog, you probably know that our two main communication channels are this Friday Blog (Three Wheeling) and the Momentum on Wednesday. While both are designed to keep Elio supporters in the loop, they aim to convey different types of information. The Momentum is a more technical oriented communication while the Friday Blog covers more general Elio Motors information. There are several topics that seem to fit in-between these two distinct entries. These questions are about the vehicle itself, but are not quite technical, nerdy (which is not a bad thing!) questions.

So, we thought this Friday Blog might act as the perfect bridge for some odds and ends vehicle questions! Without further ado…

What kind of key comes standard in the Elio?

Currently, a standard key/fob will come as standard equipment, one piece. This is not in stone at this point as we are working with vendors to minimize cost in all areas.

Will a rearview mirror be an available option?

We do not plan on offering a rearview mirror as an option because it is an obsolete feature in the Elio. With our front-to-back configuration and vehicle geometry, the side mirrors provide the driver with adequate sight lines for backing up. Additionally, a rearview camera will almost certainly be available as an option.

Does the interior come with a dome light?

Yes, a dome light located directly above the steering wheel comes standard.

How adjustable is the front seat?

The Elio comes standard with a 6-way manual front seat. 6-way means up/down/forward/aft/lean forward/lean rearward (until impeded by back seat, like most every vehicle on road today). We are planning on a power seat as an option as well.

Can I remove the back seat for extra storage?

Yes, you could, but the space gain is minimal as the rear seat is formed and shaped and overall fairly thin. Remember, the rear seat folds down for extra storage space.

What am I supposed to do with my golf clubs?

No issues here,





As always thank you for your support.

 

[pistonboy]

I suspect a few people will install a rearview mirror.
Then, when they go to adjust it, will at that point discover it is useless.

 

[pistonboy]

They should have said something about the NASDAQ stock offering!

After all, they do have 9 people working in the corporation.