Engine Torque?

[2.ooohhh]

Hello All, I just signed up as a new member to this group. Thanks for this nice site!
Technically, horsepower and torque (lbs-ft) are always equal (the same) at the 'majic' number of 5,252 rpm. So, given 55 HP and 55 lb-ft, the rpm that they occur will be 5,252. Huh?

This may sound strange but it's the law (mathematically speaking). Horsepower is calculated from two variables, torque and rpm.
The math is HP = (torque in lb-ft X rpm) / 5252 = (55 x 5252)/5252 = 55. Hope this helps rather than confuse. Cheers!

Technically correct, but flawed in the case of most modern engine management systems. While you are correct that the HP and torque are equal at 5,252 rpm, the flaw lies in assuming that is the only place that they could be the same value when looking at max hp/tq. Since they are in pursuit of fuel mileage they will most likely use the VVT to great effect on the low end likely creating maximum torque at a much lower rpm(say 3k) while max HP would could easily fall somewhere around 6.5k so they will still be the same at 5,252 (for our example say 44hp /44lb-ft) but the max values are the same as well being 55hp /55lb-ft.

 

[Velnias]

Hello All, I just signed up as a new member to this group. Thanks for this nice site!
Technically, horsepower and torque (lbs-ft) are always equal (the same) at the 'majic' number of 5,252 rpm. So, given 55 HP and 55 lb-ft, the rpm that they occur will be 5,252. Huh?

This may sound strange but it's the law (mathematically speaking). Horsepower is calculated from two variables, torque and rpm.
The math is HP = (torque in lb-ft X rpm) / 5252 = (55 x 5252)/5252 = 55. Hope this helps rather than confuse. Cheers!

Yah, I found that formula as well. But it can be misleading, plus you aren't using it correctly. The formula uses the peak torque and the rpm at which it is made for the calculation. So let's say that magical 55 lb-ft of torque is made at 3800 rpm. The formula would be (55 x 3800)/5252=39.79hp, but that hp number would also be for the engine at 3800 rpm and not it's actual max hp capable.

You can see how that can be somewhat misleading when you start using higher performance engines like the Chevy LS9 with 638hp @ 6500 rpm, 604lb-ft @ 3800. With those numbers and that formula you end up with 437hp for that motor, but that's at 3800 rpm and not the max hp of the motor, which can be confusing and misleading.

The original formula was based on steam engines over 300 years ago and might not be accurate for how much engine design and operation has changed. It might not have been accurate at the time due to how little was known at the time of the actual operation of motors. Our math and science changes over the years as we observe how things work and see if what we originally thought was true and accurate. Sometimes we were wrong and change things to reflect the new observations made, and sometimes we prove those original findings accurate. That's the nature of science though and it's always changing as we learn more.

 

[Kuda]

That's the nature of science though and it's always changing as we learn more. [/quote]

So motor/gear heads how may the IAV/Elio existing tech./ motor be tweaked for optimum power off the line??
I speculate: Opt. Turbo with tweakable computer chip & tuned exhaust w/racing air cleaner, etc......

 

[KN16]

So motor/gear heads how may the IAV/Elio existing tech./ motor be tweaked for optimum power off the line??
I speculate: Opt. Turbo with tweakable computer chip & tuned exhaust w/racing air cleaner, etc......

We can't even guess yet about the computer as they've given us no clue as to what they are doing for engine management. If they go with an OBDII compliant system it will be easy to tweak. Since it's not a car they don't have to. If they go with a propitiatory system it could be couple of years before it's properly hacked.

The stock intake and exhaust as shown in the demo video looks VERY efficient. Not likely to be any HUGE gains there. Well maybe not even small gains.

Much depends on how much of the MPG tuning is accomplished through the cam. I suspect it may end up being an awesome MPG cam and a real dog when it comes to performance. Swapping out the cam will be no big deal however if no one is making an aftermarket performance cam you'll have to have one custom ground and it will be costly.

As for turbo's really the only way for us to know how well suited to performance the rod/crank bearings are is to have some adventurous types blow theirs up. Then we'll know how far NOT to go. If you were to bolt on a turbo with no other changes you'd likely not be able to go over 4psi boost without breaking something or blowing the head gasket. Not a huge performance gain for the money spent.

There's been some talk that there may be a factory HO engine. I wouldn't expect to see it the first year. However I also wouldn't expect the to be ridiculously expensive so getting one if/when it is available might be the easiest most cost effective way to go.

 

[Kuda]

There's been some talk that there may be a factory HO engine. I wouldn't expect to see it the first year. However I also wouldn't expect the to be ridiculously expensive so getting one if/when it is available might be the easiest most cost effective way to go.

Nice analysis, thanks. Time will tell. 0-60 in 9.6 sec. doesn't set the world on fire but my 2012 Honda Civic does 0-60 in 9.7 sec. &
it's fine for getting on the freeway. Still I'll be looking for tweaks as I'm not so concerned about the 84mpg.

 

[Malina]

I E-Mailed them and asked if they had Dyno'ed the engine yet and if they had a HP/Torque/RPM graph, they said no. It would tell a lot about the engine.

 

[Horn]

Looks just like the 3 cylinder suzuki engine that was in the metro.

 

[goofyone]

Looks just like the 3 cylinder suzuki engine that was in the metro.

It should as that was the basis for the Elio motor. Other than newer aluminum alloys which should make the entire engine lighter the biggest updates are supposed to be in the cylinder head with a revised combustion chamber and simple variable valve timing.

 

[Horn]

It should as that was the basis for the Elio motor. Other than newer aluminum alloys which should make the entire engine lighter the biggest updates are supposed to be in the cylinder head with a revised combustion chamber and simple variable valve timing.

Nothing wrong with that at all except some people act like the metro is a pos.

If engine parts would interchange, I think several of you would swap out the cam for an xfi cam to provide more low end power.

 

[goofyone]

Nothing wrong with that at all except some people act like the metro is a pos.

If engine parts would interchange, I think several of you would swap out the cam for an xfi cam to provide more low end power.

I actually think the little Suzuki engine was probably the best part of the Geo. This new Elio engine should be pretty fun to play with and it would not surprise me if one of you guys installed one in a Geo just for fun. From what we know the new engine it is detuned for better fuel economy and has been designed with a turbo in mind. Due to it being detuned just by reprograming the ECU it should be possible to raise the power by about 20% which should make for a fun ride.