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Elio Electronics?

Chaz

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Don't forget Seattle and WA state. There are 15 more states that will be following soon.

But the next President could put an end to it all, it is still illegal under federal law. If they enforce the rules on the books all these "legal" stores will be under charges and their assets seized.
 

floydv

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But the next President could put an end to it all, it is still illegal under federal law. If they enforce the rules on the books all these "legal" stores will be under charges and their assets seized.
Could but highly unlikely. Society has changed quite a bit over the past ten years, and that genie like several others has left the bottle. Hopefully the Elio represents another sea change in American tastes.
 

Chaz

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Could but highly unlikely. Society has changed quite a bit over the past ten years, and that genie like several others has left the bottle. Hopefully the Elio represents another sea change in American tastes.

The Feds just relisted it as a schedule 1 drug last month
 

Coss

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Could but highly unlikely. Society has changed quite a bit over the past ten years, and that genie like several others has left the bottle. Hopefully the Elio represents another sea change in American tastes.

If that happened, Washington State could secede and become the 4th largest nuclear power in the world.


"Wall? Who needs a stupid wall..... "
BOOM2.png
 

pistonboy

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They will never be impossible to repair, only more expensive. Every part of an Opel GT can be reproduced, if you are willing to spend the time/money.
That is true, though it could get very expensive. The advantage of fixing up an old GM, Ford, or Chrysler is that these were usually high volume cars. There are more people who drove these in the past, and want to fix them up today. Also, there are more of these old vehicles around to salvage parts from.

The people with small production run vehicles, like a friend of mine who is fixing up a Maserati, find it very hard/expensive fixing these up.
 

Ty

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To the overwhelming majority of Americans, cars are disposable appliances they use just to get to where they need to go. They don't know and they don't care how it works, and want to perform as little maintenance as possible. They want a shiny new one every few years. Automakers, including Elio if they are smart, make cars for them, not for you. Automakers' only job, only obligation as publicly-held, for-profit companies is "deliver shareholder value" aka make money. They don't make money off of you.

Solid-state electronics are far more reliable than mechanical devices, but in reality only have to be reliable for the length of the first buyer's ownership or the length of the warranty, whichever is longer. First buyers are the only buyers that matter to car companies for obvious reasons. The average length of new car ownership is 6.5 years. A new car only has to be reliable to some value (4-sigma?) beyond 6.5 years to give 99.9% of the only buyers that matter - first buyers - a car that will be highly reliable.

Second, third, fourth owners and beyond bring little to no money to a car maker and only in the form of parts. Sure, those later buyers might become first buyers down the road so there is little incentive to intentionally build-in planned obsolescence. But the automaker has to strike a balance between reliability and cost. They will choose a cheaper part if they can.

Now that we've established that Elio's focus is on making money by selling appliances:
Elio is going take advantage of the technology to minimize costs and maximize profits, and thus will be as loaded with computers and sensors as any other modern vehicle.
The computers I can think of:
1. ECU/ECM - Engine Control Unit/Module.
2. PCM - Powertrain Control Module for the automanual transmission. Likely NOT integrated with ECU/ECM.
3. Air Bag computer - Always separate from all other computers for reliability/survivability.
4. ABS - Anti-lock Braking System computer.
5. DSC/TCS - Dynamic Stability Control/Traction Control System. Likely this and ABS are one integrated computer.
6. Stereo - All computerized now.
7. Instrument Panel - I think I read this will be a CANbus vehicle, so IP will be a networked computer.
8. Cruise Control - May be integrated with ECU/ECM.
9. IPM - Integrated Power Module - Central control computer for all electricity control and distribution. Headlights, tail lights, brake lights, dome lights, horn, power windows, etc. If it runs on electricity, it goes through this module. I don't know if Elio will go this route. Most cars build in the last 5-10 years do.
10. CANbus receivers - Dozens. The newest cars ditch the IPM and just daisy-chain power wires and network wires to every electric device. At each device, like a power window motor, a computer listens to the CANbus for the command to open or close the window. The power window switch is just a computer that puts the commands on the network bus. This saves tremendous cost since, for example, the driver's door just requires two current-carrying and two wispy network wires instead of a dozen or more current-carrying wires that the old direct-wire or IPM systems require.

If the Elio had power steering, it would have gone to 11. :D Yep, most cars have electronic power steering now.

Without attempting to enumerate them, there will probably be 50+ sensors total connected to the computers above if you count human input controls.

All that said, it's not the end of the world. There will always be specialists out there who know how to keep these cars running. Case-in-point: 1986 Buick Riviera. You may recall it had a funky first-generation touchscreen on a CRT display. It was pretty marginal, but totally unique and way ahead of it's time. It only lasted two model years before being replaced with conventional knobs and buttons. Yet there are still specialists today who can service and repair this 30-year-old totally unique specialized computer system.

As unique at the Elio is, I expect there will be specialists repairing it's computers long after you and I are dust.
Very well thought out. Remember though that the 2nd owner is VERY important to manufacturers as well. Most people wouldn't buy a car that had zero residual value after they pay it off. I wouldn't. Part of why I spent the money I did on my F350 is that I know it'll be worth quite a bit after I pay it off which then makes the next vehicle easier to afford as I'll have a huge down payment. I wouldn't have spent $60,000 on a truck if it was going to be worthless. The trade-in value is based a lot on perceived value but also a lot on repair capability and durability. If a company builds a car that has no value in 5 years, they'll have a lot of trouble finding buyers.
 

Rob Croson

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Most people wouldn't buy a car that had zero residual value after they pay it off.
All my cars, except one, had zero residual value when I was done with them. (I traded that one in to get out of a high-interest loan and got a zero interest loan.) I keep them until they fall apart underneath me, then go buy a new one. The last dealer gave me a mercy $500 trade-in value.

Then again, I don't buy expensive vehicles, and count on keeping them for a long time. My current car is 12 years old, and it's pretty much time for the scrap heap.
 

Ty

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All my cars, except one, had zero residual value when I was done with them. (I traded that one in to get out of a high-interest loan and got a zero interest loan.) I keep them until they fall apart underneath me, then go buy a new one. The last dealer gave me a mercy $500 trade-in value.

Then again, I don't buy expensive vehicles, and count on keeping them for a long time. My current car is 12 years old, and it's pretty much time for the scrap heap.
If you weren't the first buyer and the first buyer didn't just give it to you, it wasn't a zero residual value car. You seem to have a good eye for "previously owned" cars. Some people can't seem to catch a break when buying used and end up with a money pit.
 

Rob Croson

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No, I buy new cars. Then I drive them until they pretty much fall apart under me. And when I'm done with them, they have no value left. (Except maybe for parts scavenging.)
 

2barrel

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To the overwhelming majority of Americans, cars are disposable appliances they use just to get to where they need to go. They don't know and they don't care how it works, and want to perform as little maintenance as possible. They want a shiny new one every few years. Automakers, including Elio if they are smart, make cars for them, not for you. Automakers' only job, only obligation as publicly-held, for-profit companies is "deliver shareholder value" aka make money. They don't make money off of you.

Solid-state electronics are far more reliable than mechanical devices, but in reality only have to be reliable for the length of the first buyer's ownership or the length of the warranty, whichever is longer. First buyers are the only buyers that matter to car companies for obvious reasons. The average length of new car ownership is 6.5 years. A new car only has to be reliable to some value (4-sigma?) beyond 6.5 years to give 99.9% of the only buyers that matter - first buyers - a car that will be highly reliable.

Second, third, fourth owners and beyond bring little to no money to a car maker and only in the form of parts. Sure, those later buyers might become first buyers down the road so there is little incentive to intentionally build-in planned obsolescence. But the automaker has to strike a balance between reliability and cost. They will choose a cheaper part if they can.

Now that we've established that Elio's focus is on making money by selling appliances:
Elio is going take advantage of the technology to minimize costs and maximize profits, and thus will be as loaded with computers and sensors as any other modern vehicle.
The computers I can think of:
1. ECU/ECM - Engine Control Unit/Module.
2. PCM - Powertrain Control Module for the automanual transmission. Likely NOT integrated with ECU/ECM.
3. Air Bag computer - Always separate from all other computers for reliability/survivability.
4. ABS - Anti-lock Braking System computer.
5. DSC/TCS - Dynamic Stability Control/Traction Control System. Likely this and ABS are one integrated computer.
6. Stereo - All computerized now.
7. Instrument Panel - I think I read this will be a CANbus vehicle, so IP will be a networked computer.
8. Cruise Control - May be integrated with ECU/ECM.
9. IPM - Integrated Power Module - Central control computer for all electricity control and distribution. Headlights, tail lights, brake lights, dome lights, horn, power windows, etc. If it runs on electricity, it goes through this module. I don't know if Elio will go this route. Most cars build in the last 5-10 years do.
10. CANbus receivers - Dozens. The newest cars ditch the IPM and just daisy-chain power wires and network wires to every electric device. At each device, like a power window motor, a computer listens to the CANbus for the command to open or close the window. The power window switch is just a computer that puts the commands on the network bus. This saves tremendous cost since, for example, the driver's door just requires two current-carrying and two wispy network wires instead of a dozen or more current-carrying wires that the old direct-wire or IPM systems require.

If the Elio had power steering, it would have gone to 11. :D Yep, most cars have electronic power steering now.

Without attempting to enumerate them, there will probably be 50+ sensors total connected to the computers above if you count human input controls.

All that said, it's not the end of the world. There will always be specialists out there who know how to keep these cars running. Case-in-point: 1986 Buick Riviera. You may recall it had a funky first-generation touchscreen on a CRT display. It was pretty marginal, but totally unique and way ahead of it's time. It only lasted two model years before being replaced with conventional knobs and buttons. Yet there are still specialists today who can service and repair this 30-year-old totally unique specialized computer system.

As unique at the Elio is, I expect there will be specialists repairing it's computers long after you and I are dust.
 
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