Compare The Elio To 1980's Answer To Fuel Mileage

[skygazer6033]

But would there be all those EPA requirements on a Diesel motorcycle?

 

[StuartGrant]

EPA tier 4 final applies to all Diesel engines, not just passenger vehicle engines, so motorcycles, generators, excavators, lawnmowers, etc, are all required to meet the NOx, sulfur, and Particulate matter emissions regulations. So Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel, Lean NOx trap or DEF/SCR system, and DPF or Ultra high pressure small orifice injection system are the technologies around to deal with this. Mazda has a low compression ratio diesel engine coming out, running at at either 14.5:1 or 12.5:1, which will help deal with the NOx without needing a LNT or DEF/SCR, but the lower combustion pressure will reduce thermodynamic efficiency, thus decreasing fuel economy, but it will be made with an aluminum block, which will save some weight and increase fuel economy.

EPA regulations aren't exactly BS either. We have a member on the board who posted in the Diesel thread a while back about how either they or their SO get violently sick when exposed to diesel particulate matter, it's not very common but such reactions from asthmatics are serious. Anyone who's seen LA or Beijing can tell you about the smog, which is mostly caused by NOx and unburnt hydrocarbons, whether you believe in global warming or not I think we all want clear air...

 

[Gary Beam]

another 80's answer to mileage concerns was the Chevy Sprint ==>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Cultus<== ours had a 3 cylinder, 1L motor, manual tranny, that delivered 50+ mpg (interstate) in a 4 seat vehicle .... I've read reports where others good far better longevity than we did, well shy of 90,000 miles, the motor was done .... we literally had to add a quart of oil between gas fill-ups .... that is the last 3 cylinder motor we have owned in a car, have had several on boats .... I have to admit that when I learned EM was featuring a .9L 3 cylinder engine, I almost stopped looking

Jim

Jim, I also owned 2 Chevy Sprints in the mid 80's. Great little cars for their price. MPG per passenger couldn't be beat! My 84 2dr manual weighed in @ 1488lbs. just a couple hundred less more an Elio!, and got 55+ mpg on the highway. My 87 4dr manual w/air only got 45+ mpg on the highway. On the down side I only got ~100K miles out of engines. The 84 wouldn't pass smog with computerized carburetor problems $$$, and the 87 had excessive oil consumption $$$, just like yours. Lets hope the new Elio engine turns out to be more reliable out the gate.

My question that Elio won't answer is: How much better is the orange P4 mule's MPG right now, than a 1984 Chevy Sprint? I know the orange mule doesn't have the production engine, suspension, hp tires etc, but if its not at least better than the Sprint, I can't see how a slightly different engine power curve, lighter springs, hp tires etc. will get the Elio up to 84 mpg??

Don't get me wrong, I like the Elio, and will buy one even if it only gets 70mpg! What I don't like is when Elio tells me they don't know what the P4's mpg is because it doesn't matter; computer simulations of the production components tell us everything we need to know!!

 

[zelio]

Jim, I also owned 2 Chevy Sprints in the mid 80's. Great little cars for their price. MPG per passenger couldn't be beat! My 84 2dr manual weighed in @ 1488lbs. just a couple hundred less more an Elio!, and got 55+ mpg on the highway. My 87 4dr manual w/air only got 45+ mpg on the highway. On the down side I only got ~100K miles out of engines. The 84 wouldn't pass smog with computerized carburetor problems $$$, and the 87 had excessive oil consumption $$$, just like yours. Lets hope the new Elio engine turns out to be more reliable out the gate.

My question that Elio won't answer is: How much better is the orange P4 mule's MPG right now, than a 1984 Chevy Sprint? I know the orange mule doesn't have the production engine, suspension, hp tires etc, but if its not at least better than the Sprint, I can't see how a slightly different engine power curve, lighter springs, hp tires etc. will get the Elio up to 84 mpg??

Don't get me wrong, I like the Elio, and will buy one even if it only gets 70mpg! What I don't like is when Elio tells me they don't know what the P4's mpg is because it doesn't matter; computer simulations of the production components tell us everything we need to know!!

Why would you care what the mpg is on a 20 y/o engine? I can certainly understand why Elio thinks it is not important. Our Elios will have a new engine and they are designing it to meet their specifications. The P4 engine is a borrowed implant used because it fit in the provided space not because it met their criteria. I think you need to read the Tech Talks on the engine. It is much more than a "slightly different engine power curve, etc." This is definitely a case where reading updated information before asking question is the wise step. :-)

Oh, BTW, welcome. I hope you enjoy this exciting journey to Elio production and ownership. :-) Zelio from Oregon

 

[JEBar]

On the down side I only got ~100K miles out of engines.

good to know that I wasn't the only one who got such short service out of those motors

Jim

 

[jetpack54]

Jim, I also owned 2 Chevy Sprints in the mid 80's. Great little cars for their price. MPG per passenger couldn't be beat! My 84 2dr manual weighed in @ 1488lbs. just a couple hundred less more an Elio!, and got 55+ mpg on the highway. My 87 4dr manual w/air only got 45+ mpg on the highway. On the down side I only got ~100K miles out of engines. The 84 wouldn't pass smog with computerized carburetor problems $$$, and the 87 had excessive oil consumption $$$, just like yours. Lets hope the new Elio engine turns out to be more reliable out the gate.

My question that Elio won't answer is: How much better is the orange P4 mule's MPG right now, than a 1984 Chevy Sprint? I know the orange mule doesn't have the production engine, suspension, hp tires etc, but if its not at least better than the Sprint, I can't see how a slightly different engine power curve, lighter springs, hp tires etc. will get the Elio up to 84 mpg??

Don't get me wrong, I like the Elio, and will buy one even if it only gets 70mpg! What I don't like is when Elio tells me they don't know what the P4's mpg is because it doesn't matter; computer simulations of the production components tell us everything we need to know!!

Welcome to the forum Gary. I think you know the answer to your question based on what you wrote! Elio is at least 200lbs. less than your Sprint, almost half the width and is supremely aerodynamic! Now if you claim that your Sprint can do 55+ mpg highway, don't you think it's almost academic that the Elio can easily surpass that??? That's why with a brand new and lighter engine, EM is very confident that they can hit their mark! Be patient and hang in there, and like Z said, follow the Tech Talk regarding the engine....all your questions will be answered soon!

 

[John Painter]

What's the the rod length on the engine? This is the block photo released this morning, looks long. Hard to tell in the photo.

 

[goofyone]

What's the the rod length on the engine? This is the block photo released this morning, looks long. Hard to tell in the photo.

Don't have the details yet but we do know this has been designed as a long stroke engine for enhanced torque.

 

[AriLea]

Welcome to the forum Gary. I think you know the answer to your question based on what you wrote! Elio is at least 200lbs. less than your Sprint, almost half the width and is supremely aerodynamic! Now if you claim that your Sprint can do 55+ mpg highway, don't you think it's almost academic that the Elio can easily surpass that??? That's why with a brand new and lighter engine, EM is very confident that they can hit their mark! Be patient and hang in there, and like Z said, follow the Tech Talk regarding the engine....all your questions will be answered soon!

The interesting thing about aerodynamics. The Swift is a good test case for that. If you look it up on economoder and elsewhere. Given a Geo-Metro-Swift circa 1998 (or there abouts), getting 45mpg in it's natural environment, people have chopped in various ways and claimed they get 90mpg in the same conditions. In one case it was a tail-chop. In another case they cut off the top of the car for the passenger. In another they hacked the top down to half.
The Elio is a likely to be a better Kammback aeroform than those. IMHO, the 84mpg mark seems pretty easy to hit.

Any of these with the tail truncated is also a Kammback.

 

[Gary Beam]

Why would you care what the mpg is on a 20 y/o engine? I can certainly understand why Elio thinks it is not important. Our Elios will have a new engine and they are designing it to meet their specifications. The P4 engine is a borrowed implant used because it fit in the provided space not because it met their criteria. I think you need to read the Tech Talks on the engine. It is much more than a "slightly different engine power curve, etc." This is definitely a case where reading updated information before asking question is the wise step.

Oh, BTW, welcome. I hope you enjoy this exciting journey to Elio production and ownership. Zelio from Oregon

What a friendly welcome. Thank You!