Borrow $240 Mil, Or Borrow Alot Less And Start Out Slow?

[Folks]

Yup, I wonder if DoE wouldn't throw EM a bone just on the principle of the whole thing.
There's a little sump'n for everyone.

Am I the only one that sees this as an ad to sell wigs?

 

[Rickb]

Sorry Rickb, not 'trying' to come off as political, but my dislike for Gov't waste and the inevitable fraud that comes with it slides out in my opinions [mental filter] sometimes. I'd get tarred and feathered by either party for my opinions on how they're handling my hard-earned tax money. It just burns my a$$ when something goes down, Solyndra in this situation, and nobody goes to prison for their part in the fiasco. Again, sorry, I'll attempt to keep it on topic and personal opinions at bay.

Okay...one more quote from 'your' source, Mercatus Center, George Mason University:

"Some 2,378 permanent jobs were claimed to be created under the program. This works out to a taxpayer exposure of $6,731,034 per job."


...couldn't help myself.

Hey, brother! At least we agree on wanting Elio Motors to succeed [BIGTIME]! That counts for something!

Back to our regularly scheduled programming...

So, you don't misunderstand, I don't condone waste and/or fraud either. My only point was that the DOE Loan Program that has provided venture capital to qualified applicants has a profitable portfolio overall with a couple of failures. It has not lost taxpayer money overall as a loan program. All public or private venture capitalists have successes and failures on their books. Many private venture investors lost money on Solyndra and Fisker as well. Hoping EM doesn't join that short list of failures.

The DOE Loan Program isn't a wasetful government program IMO and was bi-partisan. I have no idea about fraud and would choose to let the courts decide based on hearing the facts regarding the default, rather than reading politically motivated news stories that are reporting their side for their interests and pointing fingers at any administration.
If EM succeeds it may be as a result of a DOE Loan approval that you feel is wasteful. We do agree on wanting the Elio and if delivered it will be because of Federal, State, County, and Municipal Governments program support right down to EM getting a % kickback on the anticipated 1500 employee payroll. Whether EM succeeds or fails many will still claim government wasted funds and twist the facts for political gain.

 

[Folks]

"The DOE Loan Program isn't a wasetful government program IMO and was bi-partisan."

The fact that you don't see the waist is astounding. Solyndra was and is dripping with dirty one sided politics. I thought you knew that Al Gore invented "green crap" right after he invented the internet.

Get it straight Solyndra's numbers never added up from the beginning.
"I have no idea about fraud and would choose to let the courts decide based on hearing the facts regarding the default."

Naivete in spades. By the time the courts get to the unwinding the big o will be in his grave with all the other cheats.

" We do agree on wanting the Elio and if delivered it will be because of Federal, State, County, and Municipal Governments program support. Whether EM succeeds or fails many will still claim government wasted funds and twist the facts for political gain."

Yes the Elio will owe a great deal to every level of Government support. No need to throw the DOE out with the bath water here. My thinking doesn't do business that way for sure. Lastly; You are also misguided to judge DOE as to profit. Minimize waist not profit is the measure. Profit is the domain of free Enterprise . Last I heard.

 

[goofyone]

Outside of the plant, I think almost all of the vendors are experienced and will meet timelines. Elio will, of course, have to set up their requirements. I expect there to be no problem with those companies. The problems I'll predict will be with anything that hasn't been done before by someone who hasn't done it. I'd guess the engine line could cause issues. It wouldn't take many bad castings to slow the line down. I'd also expect there to be a couple of hiccups with small parts being ordered in the wrong quantity or batch size ("What do you mean we ordered 20,000 fasteners packaged 10 to a bag to be shipped one bag per week? We needed 10 bags of 20,000 fasteners shipped once per week!").

Shreveport will have the frame line where the frame gets welded up, the engine line, and the main line. Those two feeder lines are the main ones. The engine will be mated to the transmission in a little line, tires put on wheels, seats assembled to tracks, etc. but those are pretty minor. Comau is helping to set up the line and I'm sure that includes parts delivery as well. GM used a "store" and golf cart trains to deliver parts to the line and I'm sure Elio will do the same. They had a way of knowing how many parts were left and which ones to bring around on their next trip. You can't store ALL your parts at the point of use or the station would be too hard to make efficient. They'll keep enough parts to last the amount of time it will take the parts guy to make his next round. (There were a bunch of parts guys and some stations only have to visited once in a while)

Those jobs on the assembly line were all very easy to learn. It takes doing the job once or twice to get it down. Getting parts to the line, however, is a whole different ballgame.

Expanding a bit on Ty's comments, there will always be minor gremlins when starting up a new assembly operation however experience helps avoid bigger issues and EM has plenty of experience on their side. This is provided by the combination of EM's VP of Manufacturing and Product Launch, Gino Raffin, and Comau. Gino Raffin is a veteran automotive plant manager and manufacturing/product launch executive and Comau brings plenty of experience having set up and refurbished automotive assembly and engine manufacturing facilities all over the world. Comau's experience even includes recently setting up Ford's 3-cylinder Ecoboost production facilities in Cologne, Germany and Craiova, Romania each of which now produces over 350,000 engines of these engines per year. Comau also manufacturers the PTWA 'flame spray' cylinder lining equipment and has integrated these into several of Ford's production facilities.

Elio Motors Tech Talk v15: Gino Raffin: http://us6.campaign-archive2.com/?u=24b371802c83d81776b06aa68&id=72e91759db&e=[UNIQID]
Elio Motors Tech Talk v17: Elio Motors Manufacturing Plant: http://us6.campaign-archive1.com/?u=24b371802c83d81776b06aa68&id=727e582c73

 

[Kuda]

[QUOTE="Ty, post: Snipped:Getting parts to the line, however, is a whole different ballgame.[/QUOTE]

I think 'Gino' can handle most of
the birthing pains. Ain't his first
Rodeo.....

 

[Ty]

[QUOTE="Ty, post: Snipped:Getting parts to the line, however, is a whole different ballgame.

I think 'Gino' can handle most of
the birthing pains. Ain't his first
Rodeo.....[/QUOTE]
I have no doubts he can. I merely meant that the big issues won't be assembly but rather getting parts there.

 

[pistonboy]

Outside of the plant, I think almost all of the vendors are experienced and will meet timelines. Elio will, of course, have to set up their requirements. I expect there to be no problem with those companies. The problems I'll predict will be with anything that hasn't been done before by someone who hasn't done it. I'd guess the engine line could cause issues. It wouldn't take many bad castings to slow the line down. I'd also expect there to be a couple of hiccups with small parts being ordered in the wrong quantity or batch size ("What do you mean we ordered 20,000 fasteners packaged 10 to a bag to be shipped one bag per week? We needed 10 bags of 20,000 fasteners shipped once per week!").

Shreveport will have the frame line where the frame gets welded up, the engine line, and the main line. Those two feeder lines are the main ones. The engine will be mated to the transmission in a little line, tires put on wheels, seats assembled to tracks, etc. but those are pretty minor. Comau is helping to set up the line and I'm sure that includes parts delivery as well. GM used a "store" and golf cart trains to deliver parts to the line and I'm sure Elio will do the same. They had a way of knowing how many parts were left and which ones to bring around on their next trip. You can't store ALL your parts at the point of use or the station would be too hard to make efficient. They'll keep enough parts to last the amount of time it will take the parts guy to make his next round. (There were a bunch of parts guys and some stations only have to visited once in a while)

Those jobs on the assembly line were all very easy to learn. It takes doing the job once or twice to get it down. Getting parts to the line, however, is a whole different ballgame.

Thank you very much for your inputs. They are truly informative and some of the best.

 

[Kuda]

I think 'Gino' can handle most of
the birthing pains. Ain't his first
Rodeo.....

I have no doubts he can. I merely meant that the big issues won't be assembly but rather getting parts there.[/QUOTE]

I understand. That's why having
Frequent supplier meetings is
A big plus for EM's pre-planning....

 

[Doug Fox]

it is important for everyone who is interested in the future of Elio to support the approval of Em's loan application. Access to $250 million in business development loans is no easy task. What is unique about Elio Motors is it's ground swell of individual support that is virtually unmatched in its size and scope. Unfortunately the 40,000 future Elio owners don't have the $250 million to get the job done. The loan program is key. We need to mobilize 40,000 voices to seek approval of this venture capital.

You can bet that Ford, and General Motors are betting against this approval and working behind the scenes to try and prevent approval. The reality is that back door deals are the biggest threat to the success of Elio motors. If you have a voice ... use it.

 

[Kuda]

it is important for everyone who is interested in the future of Elio to support the approval of Em's loan application. Access to $250 million in business development loans is no easy task. What is unique about Elio Motors is it's ground swell of individual support that is virtually unmatched in its size and scope. Unfortunately the 40,000 future Elio owners don't have the $250 million to get the job done. The loan program is key. We need to mobilize 40,000 voices to seek approval of this venture capital.

You can bet that Ford, and General Motors are betting against this approval and working behind the scenes to try and prevent approval. The reality is that back door deals are the biggest threat to the success of Elio motors. If you have a voice ... use it.

http://elioowners.com/threads/finan...lopment-and-production.876/page-94#post-91138
http://elioowners.com/search/1642832/?q=big+three+and+cafe+credits&t=post&o=date