-
Welcome to Elio Owners! Join today, registration is easy!
You can register using your Google, Facebook, or Twitter account, just click here.
Arcimoto
- Thread starter ChuckP
- Start date
RSchneider
Elio Addict
I disagree. The money is there for both to use. They do not need to be successful either. Just use it up. After that, look elsewhere for money. Zero risk.
Arcimoto used my $FUV investment funding to successfully cross the production finish line in 2019.………and then lost focus on their Mission Statement, the needed FUV platform improvements reported by current owners, full enclosure/climate control, sales/service, and scaled production numbers required to make the FUV appeal to a wide range of market demographics. It’s currently nothing more than the open air, 100 mile range, electric, relatively safe commuter three wheeler motorcycle it is. Regional sales/service and market appeal is limited to the warm season climate motorcycle demographic. Some Florida owners state that they have weeks of down time due to HOT summer temps.
So, as a guess, marketing management is again the true devil.
If I had the time and access to do so, I'd look at a comparison between the Vanderhall, Slingshot, the Can-Am-Spyder, Arcimoto and of course Elio. Which is an apple-to-oranges-to-cherries-to-guava-to-bananas comparison. Which is to say, I'm not wishing to compare the products as much as the markets.
Out of all of them, I'd have to guess the Spyder had the most successful launch and continuing market. And I think the reason is that it had some prior market activity to analyze.
Basically, they got a very close look at the conversion of snowmobiles into trikes. They knew, that at least inside Canada and US-American highland areas, there was some minimum number of people who would and could buy that platform at a premium motorsports price. Then they carefully kept cultivating inside the attribues and limits of motorsports to keep a good profit margin alive. And they have carefully avoided market saturation or especially avoid projection over-reach.
Arcrimoto and Elio transgress into the utilitarian arena where vehicle price is much more touch and go. Elio did not heavily market on that compared to Acrimoto (which highlighted 'fun'). And I will also note that a high percentage of those who reserved an Elio had leasure and fun in mind for the use of thier Elios.
Absolutely, Elio should have offered the Turbo option up front and provided some action packed videos of the Elio runnning wildly in the snow and on ice. Which it can actually do pretty well in those environments, if you learn how. I mean you can't do donuts, but it does track well with 67% of the weight in traction. Put snow tires on it and it could go many places others can't. (but don't even think about chains) And in that line of thought, you now know why I created the 'Mudrucker' variation.
RSchneider
Elio Addict
Three wheelers will never be mainstream. They will be niche and cater toward older guys that have money to spend on toys. That's the bulk of the market. I bet if you did a survey on the people that are interested in three wheelers, most will be retired.
For the Slingshot and Spyder, they were existing companies that already had an infrastructure when it comes to dealers, parts, warranty and the know-how on how to build something. Thus, people all over Canada and the US had access to that and to go out and test drive them for free. Then make the decision if they want to buy one. Vanderhall initially tried the direct sales approach and finally gave up. Found dealers and thus built up a parts and warranty system. This also allowed people to test drive them for free.
Arcimoto sells to 18 states. Out of those states, if you want to test drive one, you better be close to one of those areas. Those are Eugene, San Diego, Orlando or Las Vegas. If you live elsewhere, you need to travel pretty far just to have the ability to test drive it to make sure that the fun is as much as what people say. The closest to me is Orlando. So I'd have to get a ticket, fly down there, rent a car and go test drive it. After that, I'll need to stay the night and then fly back. Thus, pretty expensive test drive.
As for Elio, that wasn't going to happen as there was never enough interest. Plus, I do not believe the price, safety and mileage. I figure many others did not. Thus the lukewarm reception for that product. Same for investors. There were many that just believed Paul and figured something to good to be true, is true.
Now we can watch Aptera and see how that goes. Again, limited investment and they are running at a snails pace.
For the Slingshot and Spyder, they were existing companies that already had an infrastructure when it comes to dealers, parts, warranty and the know-how on how to build something. Thus, people all over Canada and the US had access to that and to go out and test drive them for free. Then make the decision if they want to buy one. Vanderhall initially tried the direct sales approach and finally gave up. Found dealers and thus built up a parts and warranty system. This also allowed people to test drive them for free.
Arcimoto sells to 18 states. Out of those states, if you want to test drive one, you better be close to one of those areas. Those are Eugene, San Diego, Orlando or Las Vegas. If you live elsewhere, you need to travel pretty far just to have the ability to test drive it to make sure that the fun is as much as what people say. The closest to me is Orlando. So I'd have to get a ticket, fly down there, rent a car and go test drive it. After that, I'll need to stay the night and then fly back. Thus, pretty expensive test drive.
As for Elio, that wasn't going to happen as there was never enough interest. Plus, I do not believe the price, safety and mileage. I figure many others did not. Thus the lukewarm reception for that product. Same for investors. There were many that just believed Paul and figured something to good to be true, is true.
Now we can watch Aptera and see how that goes. Again, limited investment and they are running at a snails pace.
RSchneider
Elio Addict
Arcimoto had their conference call yesterday. A few things:
-Delivered 65 vehicles to customers in Q2
-Produced 94 vehicles year to date
-Delivered 102 vehicles year to date
-Produced 1000th vehicle in June. A milestone
-A total of 665 FUV's delivered to customers
-TMW delivered 11 kits this year
-954 rides from demos and rentals for Q2
-Revenue is up 17% as compared to last year
-RAMP plant is for sale. They will use a lease buyback program and only use the space they need. The rest goes to others
-Raised $6.7M and $4.3M along with selling the plant will fund them for a while
-Only using 15% of the 250,000 sqft that they have in RAMP. Thus, 37,500 sqft (AMP plant is 30,000 sqft)
-Only using 5% of the 10 acre lot they own. Thus, 0.5 acre
-Using the $6.7M for Arcimoto dealerships
-MATBLOCK relationship is working great
-Net loss went from $17.4M to $13.2M. So big swing and the future is even better
-17% growth will allow them to RAMP up production
-Our long-term goal is to offer the market, one of the most cost-effective, most efficient last mile human and goods mobility platform for the future road of what we really see the future being.
-we here at Arcimoto, we understand that we're ahead of the curve, and we think that this is what the future of mobility will look like
Good to see they are right sizing the manufacturing space. Hope they sell the building soon. I wonder if they will sell the AMP plant? No need for it.
-Delivered 65 vehicles to customers in Q2
-Produced 94 vehicles year to date
-Delivered 102 vehicles year to date
-Produced 1000th vehicle in June. A milestone
-A total of 665 FUV's delivered to customers
-TMW delivered 11 kits this year
-954 rides from demos and rentals for Q2
-Revenue is up 17% as compared to last year
-RAMP plant is for sale. They will use a lease buyback program and only use the space they need. The rest goes to others
-Raised $6.7M and $4.3M along with selling the plant will fund them for a while
-Only using 15% of the 250,000 sqft that they have in RAMP. Thus, 37,500 sqft (AMP plant is 30,000 sqft)
-Only using 5% of the 10 acre lot they own. Thus, 0.5 acre
-Using the $6.7M for Arcimoto dealerships
-MATBLOCK relationship is working great
-Net loss went from $17.4M to $13.2M. So big swing and the future is even better
-17% growth will allow them to RAMP up production
-Our long-term goal is to offer the market, one of the most cost-effective, most efficient last mile human and goods mobility platform for the future road of what we really see the future being.
-we here at Arcimoto, we understand that we're ahead of the curve, and we think that this is what the future of mobility will look like
Good to see they are right sizing the manufacturing space. Hope they sell the building soon. I wonder if they will sell the AMP plant? No need for it.
Amateurs.
Investigate the 20+ years of EcoMotors ... now that is the king of engine scams, somewhere between $200 to $250 million.
RSchneider
Elio Addict
I think for time, Moller wins. The guy used to own Supertrapp (actually started the company and then sold it). He bought all of the Evinrude machinery at auction because they were owned by GM and Rotarys were the future, yet GM gave up. That's what was going to power Moller's flying car. I remember seeing this back in the 80's in Popular Mechanics. This guy funded many of his ideas and then found investors. When after years of no results, he did the smart thing. Do an IPO. Yet he got nailed by the SEC for some illegal activity. Promise after promise, led to nothing. So, he created Freedom Motors and parked that business next store to his existing one. It was then to push the rotary for everything you could imagine. Scooters, power generation (using gas from garbage dumps to power it) and then for hybrids. One of his patents was used by NASA for something but it's supposed to be the best thing for rotary engines and the lip seal issues. Plus, he owns the only machinery that can make rotarys. Some how Mazda can do it but maybe they don't make rotarys. Plus, 1970's all manual machinery is the best, CNC controlled stuff could never make a rotary today.
Here's a report from 1988:
21 years later, no flying car but he did a TED Talk.
https://www.ted.com/talks/paul_moller_my_dream_of_a_flying_car/transcript
Then 13 years later, an interview about the flying car and how everyone else will fail:
https://www.fastcompany.com/90776029/paul-mollers-50-year-dream-to-build-a-flying-car-wont-die
More info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moller_M200G_Volantor
I think that keeping it going is the way to go. A few will continue to invest. I hand it to him. Take your 50 yr old non operating flying car company and create an engine company. I just wish Paul Elio would have teamed up with Paul Moller. They were a match made in heaven. Three wheeled flying hybrid powered by batteries and a rotary engine.
The FUV without full enclosure (possibly climate control) is just another open air three wheeler motorcycle comparable to those you mention. However, it is safer, has a degree of enclosure with the roof/half doors, and offers driver/rider sitting comfort for the old geezer market demographic. Direct to consumer sales and the lack of local dealership sales/servicing partners offers limited visual marketing, long waits on delivery, poor service in the current regional sales States, and limits sales for those that want to purchase the current production model. I wouldn’t buy a vehicle that doesn’t have a convenient local or very short wait mobile service option to include the failed Elio, the made it to production FUV, and the future BEX.
Last edited:
RSchneider
Elio Addict
Remember, sell the idea first and then for service, that comes later. Anyone that complains about service, just tell them, "You can fix it yourself!" Now many people might not have ant mechanical ability or tools but they should be able to fix an Arcimoto.