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Alabama Motorcycle Endorsement
- Thread starter Macadamean
- Start date
Treborfoot
Elio Fan
Show me a link where ELIO Motors, not some ignorant, hack reporters, says they want it classified as a car.
Try all CAPS next time to let us know what you are saying is really important and is to be believed.
I have posted a video from youtube..Listen to the whole video but pay attention to what Paul Elio says starting @ 1:42 of the video: " right, so, so, one reason small vehicles are not made in America , we buy big cars for a reason and so you do not have to get rid of your SUV, you can have this and your SUV" ..Paul does say the ELIO is a Motorcycle "(t)echnically "...Isn't it funny how all refrences the ELIO that are made compare it to a car. Paul was not HACKING when he made the comparision himself.
There is another video where Paul discusses the prices of a used car (not motorcycle) and how most people travel by themselves most of the time..Paul compared a new ELIO with the price of a used car, not a used motorcycle.
The future of this vehicle will be the marketing of it as a type of car regardless of its legal classification.
Moderator Comment: Removed personal commentary
Last edited by a moderator:
Truett Collins
Elio Addict
Comparing the Elio to a Car is not the same as saying an Elio is a car. When you are building something like the Elio there are aspects of its design that can not be compared to a motor cycle since a motor cycle does not have those designed features, so you have to compare it to what ever has those features.
karl
Elio Addict
My wife will not be able to drive an Elio in MA unless there is a change in the current law without a motorcycle endorsement. That does not make any sense to me as the skill set you need to ride a motorcycle or drive a sidecar rig do not apply to an Elio. In my view the law should take in account the skills you need to safely operate the machine. Should you need special training all well and good. Bickering over whether this is fish or fowl seems to have very little value to anyone.
Treborfoot
Elio Fan
I previously posted a copy of an email I sent to Senator Cam Ward whom I have had dealings with the last four years on Gun Rights issues in Alabama.
I forwarded my reply I had received from Senator Cam Ward to Elio Motors right after I received it ..
I was copied in an email reply that Senator Ward sent to Joel Sheltrown of Elio Motors after my email was received by Joel. I have pasted that email below.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alabama does have a helmet law for motorcycles but I was wrong about them being required for the ELIO.
I looked in the Motorcycle Section of Title 32 instead of the Rules of the Road Section..
Section 32-5A-245
Headgear and shoes required for motorcycle riders; approval of headgear; responsibility for juvenile riders; sale of helmets.
(c) This section shall not apply to persons riding within an enclosed cab.
http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/acas/CodeOfAlabama/1975/32-5A-245.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The correspondence between Senator Cam Ward and with Joel Sheltrown of Elio Motors below.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Oct 9, 2014, at 5:06 PM, Joel Sheltrown <xoxoxoxoxox@eliomotors.com> wrote:
Dear Senator Ward,
I am happy to hear you have interest in seeing a change in definitions by adding “autocycle” to Alabama Code. If you decide you would like to do that I will provide any assistance you need to make this common sense change.
However, at this time, I really don’t see the absolute need for legislation in AL since AL does not require a motorcycle license. But, that could change. I have attached a few photos for you provided a quick brief below on Elio Motors Autocycle, and info on “postponed” legislation by Representative Farley (HB 535). At the very least, HB 535 would have to be amended, if it gets that far. HB535 would require motorcyclist in AL to get a M license, so I would like to keep in contact with you on that. I will encourage Rep Farley to include an exemption for autocycles and would certainly welcome your support as well.
Below is a lengthy explanation of what our autocycle is. Great vehicle!
Elio Motors www.eliomotors.com is manufacturing a two passenger with tandem seating, front wheel drive, 3 wheel, gasoline powered, fully enclosed vehicle (technically considered a motorcycle by NHTSA). The vehicle will retail for 6800.00 and will get 84 MPG. We have over 35,000 presold reservations to date.
The Elio has been engineered for the highest available safety standards. It includes the Elio Safety Management System which consists of a high strength roll cage (similar to a race car), front and side curtain airbags, an occupant protection system for each occupant, ABS, Stability Control, Traction Control, and other safety enhancement equipment that you would normally find on an automobile. AC, Power locks and Power Windows, and a radio are also included as standard equipment. It has a top speed of over 100 MPH and 0-60 in the 9’s
Note: Paul Elio makes comment in video that ELIO drives like ANY OTHER CAR...In fact the whole video is spend making comparisons with cars.
If HB 535 (Rep Allen Farley) proceeds without an exemption for autocycles, then we should heed AAMVA (American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators) position and recommendation. After months of investigation, AAMVA concluded that these vehicles (autocycles) handle like an automobile and have automotive controls, therefore, the requirement of a motorcycle endorsement provides little or no benefit to the operator. From AAMVA’s website: “AAMVA strongly encourages jurisdictions to use these best practices (listed below) to promote uniformity. This will facilitate the movement of these vehicles from one jurisdiction to another.”
file:///C:/Users/Joel/Downloads/3%20Wheel%20Vehicles%20BestPractices%20(1).pdf
Some of AAMVA’s recommendations of “best practices” reads as follows: www.aamva.org
<!--[if !supportLists]-->1) <!--[endif]-->A regular passenger car license should be all that’s required to operate an Autocycle (An “autocycle” is a motorcycle with 3 wheels in contact with the ground).
<!--[if !supportLists]-->2) <!--[endif]-->The same plate size as motorcycles should be used (7”x4”)
<!--[if !supportLists]-->3) <!--[endif]-->Only 4 wheel vehicles should be used for a driver’s license road tests.
4) Put autocycle in statute definition.
If the endorsement exemption isn’t properly addressed in HB 535, not only will AL residents face an unnecessary burden of an endorsement test for autocycles, but people traveling in and through AL from states that don’t require endorsements would face the possibility of a citation or impoundment of their vehicle, or both.
This is a new segment that is being explored and holds much promise in creating ultra-fuel efficient vehicles that are affordable to most everyone, unlike hybrids and electrics offered for sale today which cost at least 3 times as much. Our autocycle will greatly help the citizens of AL. The money saved by Elio owners (which will be substantial) will go right back into the local economy where it will turn 5-6 times. That helps all business in AL.
“Obsolete bureaucratic definitions should not create roadblocks or stifle innovation!”
Sincerely,
Joel Sheltrown
Alabama does have a Motorcycle Endorsement on some license. I have it on my driver’s license. I am quoting from an AL.com article below.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alabama only state that doesn't require motorcycle license; pending bill would change that
" As for the Class M endorsement on the license, many Alabama drivers already have the designation and might not even know it. Rush said when new driver’s license classes were assigned in 1995 those who already had licenses were “grandfathered” and given the M endorsement.
Those who don’t have the Class M endorsement are only legal driving a motorcycle as long as they are riding in Alabama, Rush said. "
http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/03/alabama_only_state_that_doesnt.html
Note: I plan on sending this article with the quote by Capt. Guy Rush, chief examiner of the Driver License Division for the Alabama Department of Public Safety to Senator Ward and Joel Sheltrown of Elio Motors.
I forwarded my reply I had received from Senator Cam Ward to Elio Motors right after I received it ..
I was copied in an email reply that Senator Ward sent to Joel Sheltrown of Elio Motors after my email was received by Joel. I have pasted that email below.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alabama does have a helmet law for motorcycles but I was wrong about them being required for the ELIO.
I looked in the Motorcycle Section of Title 32 instead of the Rules of the Road Section..
Section 32-5A-245
Headgear and shoes required for motorcycle riders; approval of headgear; responsibility for juvenile riders; sale of helmets.
(c) This section shall not apply to persons riding within an enclosed cab.
http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/acas/CodeOfAlabama/1975/32-5A-245.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The correspondence between Senator Cam Ward and with Joel Sheltrown of Elio Motors below.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Oct 9, 2014, at 5:06 PM, Joel Sheltrown <xoxoxoxoxox@eliomotors.com> wrote:
Dear Senator Ward,
I am happy to hear you have interest in seeing a change in definitions by adding “autocycle” to Alabama Code. If you decide you would like to do that I will provide any assistance you need to make this common sense change.
However, at this time, I really don’t see the absolute need for legislation in AL since AL does not require a motorcycle license. But, that could change. I have attached a few photos for you provided a quick brief below on Elio Motors Autocycle, and info on “postponed” legislation by Representative Farley (HB 535). At the very least, HB 535 would have to be amended, if it gets that far. HB535 would require motorcyclist in AL to get a M license, so I would like to keep in contact with you on that. I will encourage Rep Farley to include an exemption for autocycles and would certainly welcome your support as well.
Below is a lengthy explanation of what our autocycle is. Great vehicle!
Elio Motors www.eliomotors.com is manufacturing a two passenger with tandem seating, front wheel drive, 3 wheel, gasoline powered, fully enclosed vehicle (technically considered a motorcycle by NHTSA). The vehicle will retail for 6800.00 and will get 84 MPG. We have over 35,000 presold reservations to date.
The Elio has been engineered for the highest available safety standards. It includes the Elio Safety Management System which consists of a high strength roll cage (similar to a race car), front and side curtain airbags, an occupant protection system for each occupant, ABS, Stability Control, Traction Control, and other safety enhancement equipment that you would normally find on an automobile. AC, Power locks and Power Windows, and a radio are also included as standard equipment. It has a top speed of over 100 MPH and 0-60 in the 9’s
Note: Paul Elio makes comment in video that ELIO drives like ANY OTHER CAR...In fact the whole video is spend making comparisons with cars.
If HB 535 (Rep Allen Farley) proceeds without an exemption for autocycles, then we should heed AAMVA (American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators) position and recommendation. After months of investigation, AAMVA concluded that these vehicles (autocycles) handle like an automobile and have automotive controls, therefore, the requirement of a motorcycle endorsement provides little or no benefit to the operator. From AAMVA’s website: “AAMVA strongly encourages jurisdictions to use these best practices (listed below) to promote uniformity. This will facilitate the movement of these vehicles from one jurisdiction to another.”
file:///C:/Users/Joel/Downloads/3%20Wheel%20Vehicles%20BestPractices%20(1).pdf
Some of AAMVA’s recommendations of “best practices” reads as follows: www.aamva.org
<!--[if !supportLists]-->1) <!--[endif]-->A regular passenger car license should be all that’s required to operate an Autocycle (An “autocycle” is a motorcycle with 3 wheels in contact with the ground).
<!--[if !supportLists]-->2) <!--[endif]-->The same plate size as motorcycles should be used (7”x4”)
<!--[if !supportLists]-->3) <!--[endif]-->Only 4 wheel vehicles should be used for a driver’s license road tests.
4) Put autocycle in statute definition.
If the endorsement exemption isn’t properly addressed in HB 535, not only will AL residents face an unnecessary burden of an endorsement test for autocycles, but people traveling in and through AL from states that don’t require endorsements would face the possibility of a citation or impoundment of their vehicle, or both.
This is a new segment that is being explored and holds much promise in creating ultra-fuel efficient vehicles that are affordable to most everyone, unlike hybrids and electrics offered for sale today which cost at least 3 times as much. Our autocycle will greatly help the citizens of AL. The money saved by Elio owners (which will be substantial) will go right back into the local economy where it will turn 5-6 times. That helps all business in AL.
“Obsolete bureaucratic definitions should not create roadblocks or stifle innovation!”
Sincerely,
Joel Sheltrown
Alabama does have a Motorcycle Endorsement on some license. I have it on my driver’s license. I am quoting from an AL.com article below.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alabama only state that doesn't require motorcycle license; pending bill would change that
" As for the Class M endorsement on the license, many Alabama drivers already have the designation and might not even know it. Rush said when new driver’s license classes were assigned in 1995 those who already had licenses were “grandfathered” and given the M endorsement.
Those who don’t have the Class M endorsement are only legal driving a motorcycle as long as they are riding in Alabama, Rush said. "
http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/03/alabama_only_state_that_doesnt.html
Note: I plan on sending this article with the quote by Capt. Guy Rush, chief examiner of the Driver License Division for the Alabama Department of Public Safety to Senator Ward and Joel Sheltrown of Elio Motors.
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