Elio Engine Specs Finally Released After Successful Dyno Test!

[goofyone]

There is always a reason when things aren't accomplished within a certain timeframe...all I am saying is that it would be much more comforting for those of us who are waiting for this vehicle to be produced if we were kept informed as to why something is taking longer than was expected...I don't think that's asking too much...

You would be correct if EM had provided an engine development time-frame and then failed to meet that time-frame however the fact is that EM never did that. You are indeed asking too much of EM in this case because you are basing your demands on false information. Since the basis for your demands have proven to be false it would be impossible for EM to keep you informed of something that did not happen.

What happened was that in an interview Paul Elio discussed the engine going on a dyno in November and people wrongly assumed this would be a full running engine dyno test so as a result some people were expecting to see dyno results. PE never told us what kind of dyno tests would be performed nor did he promise to release any information about this test yet this became an issue because people were reading way more into this than they should have and thus created an issue where there actually was none. This false 'issue' has now been extended as people are upset and calling for EM to update us on this problem which never actually happened.

What we now know is that the engine very likely was dyno tested then, and has since been dyno tested several times, however these were not the kind of dyno tests most of us are used to but instead specialized tests used by the engineering team in testing this engine. As a result these dyno tests produce information which is only useful to the engineers and would mean nothing to most of us which is of course why EM never said they would release this information.

The fact of the matter is that EM never provided an engine development timeline more specific than telling us it would be several months before they had results to share. It has now been several months and they are about to share information with us so they are providing us exactly what they promised.

 

[Jim H]

The communications/Public Relations miscues continue to increase and Elio reputation continues to take "hits". Perhaps they need to relook at their public relations plan and consider a new approach with new individuals. What they are doing now is not working well.

 

[goofyone]

The communications/Public Relations miscues continue to increase and Elio reputation continues to take "hits". Perhaps they need to relook at their public relations plan and consider a new approach with new individuals. What they are doing now is not working well.

The problem with drawing that conclusion is that we are the exception and not the rule. We do not represent what most reservations holders or outsiders know about EM as we actually know too much which is bad at times as we actually create some of our own problems which we then blame on EM.

We 'know' a lot of information which comes via unofficial sources or from official sources however which has not been released formally by EM as it is not final and still could be subject to change. We also tend to read more into what was actually said or written then get upset when things are not as we thought they were. We also tend to treat all information as if EM had released the information via formal channels and claimed it to be absolutely final which is normally not the case.

My response above, to the 'issue' that prompted this conversation, is one such example of an 'issue' which does not exist outside this closed environment where we watch EM so closely. Some people made an incorrect assumption based on information from an interview with Paul Elio and it has now snowballed into people complaining of not being kept in the loop when EM misses their deadlines and others calling for a whole new PR team.

Another example of an 'issue' created by our discussions is the ride and drive events for reservation holders. EM's official stance on these events has always been that they would occur 'close to the delivery of our first vehicle". This statement does not even promise that these events will happen before production begins, let alone before the first reservation holders need to make their decisions two months or so out, yet many people continue to believe that EM has promised that test drives will be available before they had to make their purchase decision.

 

[grampi]

They really don't need to tell us anything. If you have a reservation, they need to tell you when you can pick options, how to pay and get it delivered. I would rather EM didn't keep speculating, since every statement gets over-analyzed and over-debated. Its all well and good to have internal projections, estimates and goals. Without those, the company could not function. Unfortunately, when you disclose these to the public (especially THIS public), projections and goals turn into promises and guarantees, no matter how you present it. If you promise me $1,000 on Monday, but you give me $999 on Tuesday, I probably okay with that. BUT, to some people, you are just a day late and a dollar short.

Here's where you are wrong. Those of us who have made non-refundable deposits are basically shareholders, therefore we have a right to know in detail what's going on...

 

[Ty]

Here's where you are wrong. Those of us who have made non-refundable deposits are basically shareholders, therefore we have a right to know in detail what's going on...

You'd LIKE to know what's going on but the truth is you have no more right to know about Elio now than I do about Paramount Pictures just because I pre-ordered a movie.

 

[goofyone]

Here's where you are wrong. Those of us who have made non-refundable deposits are basically shareholders, therefore we have a right to know in detail what's going on...

We do not hold Elio Motors stock, or any other types of equity in the company, so we are not shareholders. We are simply customers who have made reservations for the opportunity to purchase an EM vehicle when, and if, they become available. EM's obligations to us are spelled out in the reservation agreement we agreed to when me made out reservations. In the reservation agreement EM does not promise to let us know details nor do they promise us when a vehicle will be available or how much it will cost. The agreement does not actually even promise that EM will provide us a vehicle at all.

 

[goofyone]

As a company looking to market a product EM shares information with us when they feel it is in their best interest to do so however this is completely voluntary on their part. Over time several of us have even heard directly from higher level EM personnel that EM has become more hesitant to release information because of all the issues it can cause as the herd mentality which exists on the internet is not very understanding of the fact that this is a start-up with plans and details which are still evolving and subject to change.

The internet herd is full of all kinds of misinformation and/or misapplied information about business management, investing and investments, legal issues, manufacturing, sales, distribution, and just about every other aspect of this business. It is an often overlooked fact that laws, contracts, and legal requirements virtually guarantee that it is not possible for EM to tell us everything that goes on so those of us on the outside will never have a clear picture of everything that is happening behind scenes. Those of us on the outside looking in also tend to make the mistake of basing our opinions from a customers perspective instead of from the perspective of someone participating in running a business which involves making decisions while looking to the future and trying to ensure that decisions made today are to the benefit of the company both now and into the future.

The irony in all this is that the relatively small group following along closely, and really wanting as much information as we can get our hands on mostly because we really want to see EM succeed, is also the group which shows the least understanding at times and as a result causes EM many unneeded problems. We cause problems for EM both directly with at times unreasonable demands and also indirectly as we know members of the media do sometimes read what we write and as a result a small misunderstanding in an online group can actually become a large PR problem for EM whether or not it is really their fault.

There are plenty of perfectly valid questions and concerns about EM for us to enjoy discussing however it does help to be aware of the bigger picture as well as of our information and point of view limitations when conducting our discussions. At times we can became our own enemy as we can and do make mountains out of molehills which in turn can end up in EM's path. Every time we do this using information which we were provided by EM it simply reinforces in them that we should not be trusted which further limits our access to information.

 

[JEBar]

At times we can became our own enemy as we can and do make mountains out of molehills which in turn can end up in EM's path. Every time we do this using information which we were provided by EM it simply reinforces in them that we should not be trusted which further limits our access to information.

I was right there with you up until the above .... I'm going to have to think about it for a while

 

[John Painter]

I was right there with you up until the above .... I'm going to have to think about it for a while

It makes sense to me, and the point G1 makes is similar to my experience interacting with politicians and state authorities administering contracts for public health services (my profession), where more often than one might think rumors overtake actual events and can even influence them. This dynamic can happen a fair amount when the state puts out an RFI, presumably because it's planning an RFP of a particular service.

 

[Smitty901]

Here's where you are wrong. Those of us who have made non-refundable deposits are basically shareholders, therefore we have a right to know in detail what's going on...

I have to disagree. We are not share holders. We are people that took a chance we rolled the dice on a $1000 to get ahead of something cool and new on the way. Most of us knew there was a good chance we just tossed a $1000 out the window.
Read the contract we were given nothing for that $1000 but a possible place in line a head of some others. And even that was not a guarantee.
No we are not share holders we are purchasers of $1000 dollar T Shirt and a free bumper sticker, a long with the right to be part of a dream. Each day it gets more and more likely we may never see a ELIO production. That does not mean we have lost all hope. If it fails at least we tried.