Jeff Porter's Football Talk

[JEBar]

I saw an interview with Joe Theismann where he said he went out at the same temp and couldn't feel the difference .... I'm not a Pats fan, don't ever recall pulling for them .... that said, to me it looks like a tempest in a teapot .... one stirred by folks who don't like the Pats and sports reporters who are trying to keep the story going .... the balls in question were used in the 1st half .... at halftime when the officials found the problem, they were taken out of service and replaced .... the Pats dominated the second half much more decisively than the did the first half .... I believe that the NFL will come down hard, not because of what they find but because they've taken a beating this year with accusations of being too easy on violations in other areas

 

[JNR]

I can't believe I'm going to respond to this thread, but here goes. Although I am a lifelong Pats fan, I don't think Belichick is a good person, it's disturbing to me that he can't shake the opposing coaches hands after some games for one. So I did originally assume there was cheating going on with deflate gate. However, if you listened to yesterdays press conference, assuming Bill was honest and open, which he appeared to be, it was all explained. Apparently agitating the outside of the football is allowed to get the type of feel the players like. Bill acknowledged they do that and that and what went unsaid is that the process may raise the temperature of the ball. Thus when reading this explanation below, if the refs then inflated to 12.5 psi, then as the ball cooled down, even at room temperature, the beginning PSI would already be below 12.5.

This is an excerpt from the press conference that was covered in this link:

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story...ots-followed-every-rule-preparation-footballs

"When the footballs are delivered to the officials' locker room, the officials were asked to inflate them to 12.5 PSI," he said. "What exactly they did, I don't know. But, for the purposes of our study, that's what we did. We set them at 12.5 [PSI]. That's at the discretion of the official regardless of what we ask for, it's the official's discretion to put them where he wants. Again, that's done in a controlled climate.

"The footballs are prepared in our locker room. They are delivered to the officials' locker room, which is a controlled environment. ... When the footballs go out onto the field into game conditions, whatever those conditions are, whether it's hot and humid, cold and damp, cold and dry, whatever it is, that's where the footballs are played with, and that's where the measurements would be different -- possibly different -- from what they are in a controlled environment, and that's what we found."

NFL rules state that footballs must have air pressure between 12.5 PSI and 13.5 PSI. Patriots quarterback Tom Brady said Thursday that his preference is for the balls to be at the minimum legal level, right at 12.5 PSI. Belichick explained Saturday that the Patriots' experiment revealed how a properly inflated ball could lose air pressure due to variables such as weather and temperature.

Heavy rain and strong wind were in Foxborough the night of the AFC Championship Game. Temperatures were in the low 50s and high 40s.

"We found that once the footballs were on the field over an extended period of time, in other words they were adjusted to the climatic conditions and also the fact that the footballs which an equilibrium without the rubbing process after that had run its course and the footballs reached an equilibrium, that they were down approximately 1.5 pounds per square inch," he said. "When we brought the footballs back in after that process and retested them in a controlled environment as we have here, then those measurements rose approximately 0.5 PSI. So the net of 1.5 [PSI] back down 0.5 [PSI] is approximately 1 PSI."

When people keep asking why the Colts balls had legal limit PSI, we don't know if they pre fill them at 13.5 psi or if they agitate the surface of the football, so I'm not sure that is relevant yet. I haven't done the calcs or research yet for how wet bulb temperature affects the temperature of the ball when wetted, but engineers here may understand wet bulb temperature and latent heat of evaporization, which I think probably plays a role in further lowering of the psi. More "scienc-y" discussion here:

http://scienceblogs.com/principles/...and-the-ideal-gas-law-physics-of-deflategate/

I think the end result of this whole thing is NFL needs to clarify the rules. Such as 12.5 - 13.5 at standard room temp and pressure, and then a sliding scale thereafter to adjust for warmer and colder temps, precipitation, and atmospheric pressure. For reference, NBA basketballs allow for pressure 7.5-8.5 psi which is a 12% range of variability and the NFL is about 7.5% range of variability.

 

[Coss]

Why not just have a compressor on the sidelines and a neutral person that checks them multiple times during the game and set them right.
They set and reset tire air pressure during a NASCAR race, so it's easy to do.
Besides, the NFL has LOTS of money, they can afford to pay a person to do it.
That way, there will never be a problem like this again.

GO SEAHAWKS!!

 

[goofyone]

To avoid all questions the officials should be completely in charge of the footballs. The league should provide the balls and these should stay within the custody of the officials throughout the entire game. All balls should be filled to a standard specification and whatever official is in charge of the balls should recheck them throughout the game. Problem solved and this would likely help the league's efforts to make the game more exciting than it already it, especially at first, as everyone would have to essentially adapt to a new ball instead of the heavily massaged balls which are used now.

 

[JEBar]

To avoid all questions the officials should be completely in charge of the footballs. The league should provide the balls and these should stay within the custody of the officials throughout the entire game. All balls should be filled to a standard specification and whatever official is in charge of the balls should recheck them throughout the game. Problem solved and this would likely help the league's efforts to make the game more exciting than it already it, especially at first, as everyone would have to essentially adapt to a new ball instead of the heavily massaged balls which are used now.

I have no problem with the teams providing balls that are "massaged" to the officials .... once they are turned over to the officials, the only time the team gets its hands on one would be when its in use on the field ..... the weak link in the chain of custody for the balls comes when the officials turn the balls over the the equipment handlers (ball boys) for each team .... make those fellows/gals league personnel and the weak link is taken care of .... I don't see any teams agreeing to play the game with balls that are taken out of the box, aired up and put into play

 

[Jeff Porter]

Time to start making Super Bowl predictions for the game. Pats favored at this time by ESPN at 1.5.

QB - give the slight edge to Brady; Wilson will do just fine, but just a very slight edge to Brady; questions to be answered... will Gronkowski catch more than 4 balls? If so, that's a lean to New England. Will Lynch get more than 60 yds rushing? If so, that's a lean to Seattle. Will Wilson have 3 or more "impact" running plays, where he either gets a first down or a TD? If so, lean to Seattle. Will Edelman (the small WR) have more than 4 catches for NE? If so, lean to NE. The team with the fewest turnovers gets a lean. Team with the fewest penalties gets a lean. Team that does better on 3rd down gets a lean.

I'm thinking NE will have trouble running the ball, so will go to passing plays like slants, WR screens, TE routes.

My prediction? I dunno yet. lol I've had a bad knee for two weeks, and am currently under the influence of some really sweet hydrocodone and ibuprofen. Prediction will come later in the week.

I'll leave you with this... the Chiefs were the only team this year to beat both the Patriots and the Seahawks. Yes, they lost to the Raiders and Titans too. lol

 

[goofyone]

I have no problem with the teams providing balls that are "massaged" to the officials .... once they are turned over to the officials, the only time the team gets its hands on one would be when its in use on the field ..... the weak link in the chain of custody for the balls comes when the officials turn the balls over the the equipment handlers (ball boys) for each team .... make those fellows/gals league personnel and the weak link is taken care of .... I don't see any teams agreeing to play the game with balls that are taken out of the box, aired up and put into play

I know it does not always translate online but my comment was meant sarcastically.

I do actually agree that the easiest way to handle this is simply for the teams to place the balls into the custody of the officials prior to the game.

 

[Neal]

To avoid all questions the officials should be completely in charge of the footballs. The league should provide the balls and these should stay within the custody of the officials throughout the entire game. All balls should be filled to a standard specification and whatever official is in charge of the balls should recheck them throughout the game. Problem solved and this would likely help the league's efforts to make the game more exciting than it already it, especially at first, as everyone would have to essentially adapt to a new ball instead of the heavily massaged balls which are used now.

They were talking this morning on the radio about the possible origins of both teams using their own balls while on offense. It seams to go back to Super Bowl I. The AFL and NFL balls were different. I think they said the AFl balls were a little longer and had a "tackier/stickier" surface. So as a comprimise, each team was allowed to use their leagues official ball while on offense. just a little fun fact I found interesting.

Now for my view of the game. I couldn't care less for either team. I was a Seaharks fan back in the Jim Zorn/Dave Craig and Steve Largeant days. But I can't stand Pete Carroll. The sleazy way he cheated at USC with Reggie Bush and others and slithered out of town before the NCAA came down on the program that was under his watch. Not a fan of the Pats, either. Bill Belichick is not likable. Seems pissed off all the time and has his own cheating issues. Even outside of the deflated balls, there was Spy Gate a few years back. Guess I will be watching for the commercials this year.

 

[Jim H]

......I have no problem with the teams providing balls that are "massaged" to the officials ....

There's just something inherently wrong with "massaged balls".......

 

[JEBar]

There's just something inherently wrong with "massaged balls".......

Belichick's term, not mine ..