Elio Kit, Would You Still Buy?

[JF]

................like the new Electric Harley!
View attachment 1840

Put a big fat front fender and some saddle bags on that and I will order one!

 

[Rickb]

Thanx Rickb but I have plenty of toilet paper. What I need, low, hunger for, are facts and sources for such. And no, I don't rely on faith. But I do enjoy watching the magic show some of you guys puts on.

I have no faith. Just so you know faith has nothing to do with my quote.

 

[Rickb]

Sure they will. Once they get the high tech playing card in the sppkes perfected, so it still sounds like a '37 John Deere.

I heard an old Harley Biker say it sounded good! I can't use his actual quote! LOL This media statement:

 

[Snick]

The hub motor in the rear sounds like a very fun project, as an electrical engineer I really enjoy playing with this sort of thing, however the issues I see are the addition of a large amount of extra unsprung weight located at the very rear of this vehicle which does not sound like a good idea in terms of vehicle handling.

This being said this is a relatively inexpensive platform for tinkering and I expect to see a lot of that going. I will enjoy watching people get creative whether it works well or not. I even have a few ideas for mods and even an engine swap when I decide to buy a second one.

Yeah, agree about the unsprung weigts--for that reason I'm not a big fan of in-hub motors. I'd rather attach it elsewhere and get a pulley and belt drive combo.

 

[Folks]

"Seeing that Elio Motors is not likely to raise its 200M by next year". Can you expound on where/how you cam to this conclusion?

Wheelthang; go figure.

 

[goofyone]

This unit only weighs 75 lbs. Maybe the swing arm would have to be beefed up: which would add some more weight. The weight distribution would move back. As an electrical engineer....Is their a way to keep the motor from over powering the engine?

The weight distribution issue can be dealt with much easier than the fact that it is 75 lbs of unsprung mass (weight on the wheel side of the suspension). The more unsprung mass you have the more that wheel assembly reacts to the road and with much greater force. With the hub motor we would be talking about somewhere around 100 lbs of total unsprung mass (complete assembly of motor, wheel, tire, suspension, etc...) bouncing up and down at the rear of this vehicle. Due to the light total weight of this vehicle it would extremely hard to dampen this much mass effectively making the whole rear end extremely unstable. I am sure we have some good mechanical engineers on here who could delve much deeper into this issue.

As Snick mentioned an electric motor mounted to the chassis with a drive belt or chain would likely be a much better choice for the rear end of this vehicle as this would eliminate the unsprung mass issue.

An automatic transmission should be able to keep up with the extra acceleration provided by the electric motor as long as you are not getting too crazy with it. You could likely use the output signal from the existing throttle position sensor, used by the drive by wire system, to send throttle information to the motor controller which would make for an easy to use system. It would likely take some tuning of the electric motor controller to get the throttle response just right but nowadays it would not surprise me if you could just have a tablet mounted in the cockpit to control and change the settings of the electric motor in real time.

 

[Folks]

Sure they will. Once they get the high tech playing card in the sppkes perfected, so it still sounds like a '37 John Deere.

I don't see harley as doing anything as truly original as the Elio. It's not in their corporate genes. LOL Same for Polaris slingshot. The slingshot is nothing more than a $20k up sized hotwheel tricycle. LOL They have not even finished their web site. LOL

 

[D.D.Bwana]

The weight distribution issue can be dealt with much easier than the fact that it is 75 lbs of unsprung mass (weight on the wheel side of the suspension). The more unsprung mass you have the more that wheel assembly reacts to the road and with much greater force. With the hub motor we would be talking about somewhere around 100 lbs of total unsprung mass (complete assembly of motor, wheel, tire, suspension, etc...) bouncing up and down at the rear of this vehicle. Due to the light total weight of this vehicle it would extremely hard to dampen this much mass effectively making the whole rear end extremely unstable. I am sure we have some good mechanical engineers on here who could delve much deeper into this issue.

As Snick mentioned an electric motor mounted to the chassis with a drive belt or chain would likely be a much better choice for the rear end of this vehicle as this would eliminate the unsprung mass issue.

An automatic transmission should be able to keep up with the extra acceleration provided by the electric motor as long as you are not getting too crazy with it. You could likely use the output signal from the existing throttle position sensor, used by the drive by wire system, to send throttle information to the motor controller which would make for an easy to use system. It would likely take some tuning of the electric motor controller to get the throttle response just right but nowadays it would not surprise me if you could just have a tablet mounted in the cockpit to control and change the settings of the electric motor in real time.

Modify for power, or modify for fuel efficiency. There are many solutions, depends on what the final intent of the modification is.

 

[Rickb]

The weight distribution issue can be dealt with much easier than the fact that it is 75 lbs of unsprung mass (weight on the wheel side of the suspension). The more unsprung mass you have the more that wheel assembly reacts to the road and with much greater force. With the hub motor we would be talking about somewhere around 100 lbs of total unsprung mass (complete assembly of motor, wheel, tire, suspension, etc...) bouncing up and down at the rear of this vehicle. Due to the light total weight of this vehicle it would extremely hard to dampen this much mass effectively making the whole rear end extremely unstable. I am sure we have some good mechanical engineers on here who could delve much deeper into this issue.

As Snick mentioned an electric motor mounted to the chassis with a drive belt or chain would likely be a much better choice for the rear end of this vehicle as this would eliminate the unsprung mass issue.

An automatic transmission should be able to keep up with the extra acceleration provided by the electric motor as long as you are not getting too crazy with it. You could likely use the output signal from the existing throttle position sensor, used by the drive by wire system, to send throttle information to the motor controller which would make for an easy to use system. It would likely take some tuning of the electric motor controller to get the throttle response just right but nowadays it would not surprise me if you could just have a tablet mounted in the cockpit to control and change the settings of the electric motor in real time.

What about a pair of front wheel hub motors?

 

[Snick]

What about a pair of front wheel hub motors?

Same issue with unsprung mass--it would make the front end weight go up dramatically because the suspension would have to be oversized to deal with a lot of mass. Best bet is mount the motor up front with some batteries and controllers and drive the front wheels via a transmission. Plus, you could pack extra batteries along the bottom of the Elio all the way back. 2 of these motors is overkill on power, in my opinion. I think the Elio's basic chassis, dimensions, and suspension design will work up to about 95 whp; beyond that, the extra power and torque could tear the frame apart, or the car would have to grow to a 1600lb beast to account for that. In my opinion, the Elio is already very VERY overweight.