For Those Who Think Ev Information Is Appropriate For An Elio Forum...

[CrimsonEclipse]

One consideration is: How long does it take to charge the various batteries at provided voltage and current? And does not the more rapid a charge often degrade the long term performance of most all batteries? One concern I have is with all batteries, they first get out on the market as being the new big solution but over the years the problems start. Li ion, for instance: now they often just last sbout two to three years no matter what charging and discharging methods. They apparently grow internal dendrites, or whatever, effectively shorting themselves out. Non of my Bluetooth speakers, for instance, work after about three years. If you are able to replace these batteries, there is no guarantee of how long they’ve been on the shelf and then you get bad ones, NIB.

I’m sticking with gasoline, heck I still have a black and white TV! Just waiting till they work all the bugs out with them color sets.

Charge time. Already discussed at length.

Your opinions of Li-ion batteries are a bit confused. The speed you charge is not the problem. HEAT is the problem.
Control the heat and keep the capacity at 20-80% and they will last you the life of the car and certainly longer than a typical ICE drive train.

Dendrites, or as we call them in the industry: "whiskers" occur with certain impurities in very specific situations, manufacturing techniques and quality control philosophies.
(looking at you Samsung)
They are an easily solved, low level problem.

Returning to the heat problem.
Comparing cell phone batteries to BEV batteries WAS an apples to apples comparison, specifically, since the original Tesla Roadster actually utilized cell phone batteries. But today, the batteries are purpose built for charging times and specific outputs.

Remember, that on a cell phone, the CPU and GPU are night next to the battery. High CPU/GPU utilization create a LOT of heat, as does the fast discharge of the battery and HD screen on full bright AND WiFi and Cell antenna. All combined in a small package with little surface area to dissipate heat.
Then, users would discharge the battery below 20%, then immediately charge the phone while in use creating EVEN MORE HEAT.
It gets worse!
Compounding the situation, the cell phone manufacturers have NO INCENTIVE to make the battery easily replaceable or last more than 18-24 months! They need you to buy another phone. (looking at YOU, Apple! <and your processor slowing shenanigans>)

Tesla NEEDS their batteries to last as long as possible, so they control the temperature, control the maximum and minimum discharge to optimize cycle life of the batter pack. In addition, the battery is not co located with a heat producing display and CPU/GPU and has an integrated cooling system.

So the basic understanding of the basic component (the battery) is insufficient.
For a proper analysis, you need an understanding of the complete system.

You're absolutely allowed to fear new technology. There are still black smiths and folks that make buggy whips.
You're not going to make much money buying buggy whip stock though.

 

[RSchneider]

Just read that a Tesla went from LA to New York in 50 hours. Estimated that they only charged it for 10 hours. No heat, but impressive still.

You drive your Elio from NYC to the Santa Monica Pier on 34 gallons of gas (only need to fill up 8 times). This is with heat and according to Google Maps, in 41 hours. Tesla has a long way to go to beat Elio.

 

[Samalross]

You drive your Elio from NYC to the Santa Monica Pier on 34 gallons of gas (only need to fill up 8 times). This is with heat and according to Google Maps, in 41 hours. Tesla has a long way to go to beat Elio.

I think the Elio built only does about twenty miles per hour, might not do it in 41 hours

 

[RSchneider]

I think the Elio built only does about twenty miles per hour, might not do it in 41 hours

It will go faster than that. All you need to do is tow it with a Tesla.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

You drive your Elio from NYC to the Santa Monica Pier on 34 gallons of gas (only need to fill up 8 times). This is with heat and according to Google Maps, in 41 hours. Tesla has a long way to go to beat Elio.

Except Elio and Tesla only compete for investment money.
Their products don't compete on the market.

Nice try though.

 

[Rob Croson]

You drive your Elio from NYC to the Santa Monica Pier on 34 gallons of gas (only need to fill up 8 times). This is with heat and according to Google Maps, in 41 hours. Tesla has a long way to go to beat Elio.

I think you can drive a back and forth from NYC to Santa Monica in a Tesla a hell of a lot of times before the first Elio ever will...

 

[Rob Croson]

Control the heat and keep the capacity at 20-80% and they will last you the life of the car and certainly longer than a typical ICE drive train.

Great couple posts on batteries and charging.

Managing the battery capacity and charge level is very important. The Chevy Bolt is advertised as having a 60 kWh battery. This is a 60kWh "usable" capacity. It's not that the battery can only hold 60 kWh, it's that they only let you use 60 kWh. That's so that it never gets "fully charged" to its physical capacity, or discharged totally flat. The battery capacity management is very sophisticated, and optimized for battery life. Like CrimsonEclipse says, EV batteries and battery management is nothing like consumer electronics batteries.

 

[KD]

Great couple posts on batteries and charging.

Managing the battery capacity and charge level is very important. The Chevy Bolt is advertised as having a 60 kWh battery. This is a 60kWh "usable" capacity. It's not that the battery can only hold 60 kWh, it's that they only let you use 60 kWh. That's so that it never gets "fully charged" to its physical capacity, or discharged totally flat. The battery capacity management is very sophisticated, and optimized for battery life. Like CrimsonEclipse says, EV batteries and battery management is nothing like consumer electronics batteries.

My Volt is set up the same way, never is drained completely nor charged to the max. Until you drive an electrified vehicle, an understanding of the way they actually work will seem foreign. They are not the panacea for all vehicles all the time, just yet, but great strides are being made.

I still want my Elio!

 

[Ty]

With the end of Federal tax credits in sight and the current administration's disdain of anything involving the environment, how big of an impact will that have on electric vehicle sales? I don't think the end of tax credits will end electric vehicle sales but it WILL cause some kind of impact.

The Bolt wasn't the only electric car to hit a January sales slump
The Bolt was far from the only electric vehicle to see sales slump from December to January. In fact, if InsideEV's estimates for Tesla's sales are accurate (and they're usually close), the Bolt was still the second-best-selling battery-electric vehicle in the U.S. last month behind Tesla's Model 3.

Vehicle Jan '18 Sales Dec '17 Sales % change
Tesla Model 3 1,875 1,060 +56%
Chevrolet Bolt EV 1,177 3,227 (-64%)
Tesla Model S 800 4,975 (-84%)
Tesla Model X 700 3,300 (-79%)
Volkswagen e-Golf 178 343 (-48%)
Nissan Leaf 150 102 (-32%)
Data sources: General Motors, Volkswagen, Nissan, and InsideEVs. All numbers are U.S. sales only. Figures for Tesla are InsideEVs's estimates.

 

[Rob Croson]

This is common for EVs. People who are thinking about it often pull the trigger before the end of the year to get the tax break. Also: Holiday debt.

Did Tesla actually deliver 1,875 Model 3s in January? Or is this just "We got another 1,875 reservations"? Tesla doesn't report monthly numbers, so that number is just a guess.