Elio Electronics?

[Gas-Powered Awesome]

I can fix 50 year old cars and get them running again because they are comparatively simple. How easy will it be 50 years from now to get today's cars running? How easy will it be to find all the electronic components for that car, 50 years from now?

Did you miss the part of my post about the extremely rare, proprietary Buick computer system that can still be readily repaired today? That's 3/5 of the way to your 50 year mark...

As always, it will be the mechanical systems that will need most of the work.

Electronics, especially integrated circuits (computers) tend to work indefinitely. No moving parts. I have a 35 year old computer, my first, bought in 1979 that still works just fine today.

I also have a 65 year old television that still works fine. Remember the TV Lucille Ball had in I Love Lucy? Yep, that one. Needed all the capacitors replaced, but those will always be available.

The fact is any car, truck, tractor, motorcycle, or other mobile contraption that has an enthusiast community will be repairable nearly indefinitely.

 

[Ekh]

You're making me blush.

This is the CANbus:

Oops, wrong one. Try CAN bus. Basically it's a private (usually) Internet for your car, where every instrument, control, sensor, switch, motor, etc. has a computer that talks to the other computers without a central controller.

And if it goes down, your entire car dies? Very scary. And I couldn't see doing the Ice Fields tour that way ... too canned for my taste.
Did much better hiking on my own.

 

[Ekh]

All public companies are run by their shareholders since the shareholders elect the board and the board appoints the CEO.

Your point about Mr. Elio is well-taken, but he is still beholden to his board and shareholders (some of y'all) to turn a profit. He is also building the Elio to a price. Some of the unusual strategies he's chosen, like direct supplier involvement, appear to be meant to meet that price without compromising the quality. I do not envy his position, he has a very narrow path to walk.

He seems to be walking it extraordinarily well. He puts Tom Sawyer to shame in getting other people to do the work and think it's a privilege.

 

[Jeff Miller]

Did you miss the part of my post about the extremely rare, proprietary Buick computer system that can still be readily repaired today? That's 3/5 of the way to your 50 year mark...

As always, it will be the mechanical systems that will need most of the work.

Electronics, especially integrated circuits (computers) tend to work indefinitely. No moving parts. I have a 35 year old computer, my first, bought in 1979 that still works just fine today.

I also have a 65 year old television that still works fine. Remember the TV Lucille Ball had in I Love Lucy? Yep, that one. Needed all the capacitors replaced, but those will always be available.

The fact is any car, truck, tractor, motorcycle, or other mobile contraption that has an enthusiast community will be repairable nearly indefinitely.

Number of vehicles and dedication of the "enthusiast community" is the key. Enthusiasts can band together and use all of their skills to keep things going but there need to be a sufficient number of those enthusiasts or it becomes cost prohibitive to come up with creative solutions.

The mid-80's bike I talked about in my previous post probably sold only 1/3 of the reservations that the elio has and it doesn't exactly have a cult following. Because of that, there is no brain box replacement and there aren't enough people that had the bike with the skills necessary to recreate the brain box.

The elio will have HUGE volume and likely lots of enthusiasts so I feel it will have a longer life than that motorcycle but I also believe that many many many vehicles built today will not be repairable in 50, or even 30 years.

 

[Ekh]

It won't matter because as Gas-Powered Awesome said, cars of today are disposable

Two points:

1. I've already run into the issue of note being able to repair a mid-80's motorcycle that I restored mechanically to perfect working condition but it still didn't work well because the brain box was malfunctioning. New brain boxes don't exist and reverse engineering either doesn't work because the original parts aren't made any more, or more to the point, it would take far more sophisticated knowledge than I have. The bike went to scrap
   
   
2. The "disposable" notion is really an unfortunate comment on our society. We really don't build things to be used perpetually and people are so focused on the latest thing that they really don't care. From this we end up buying stuff that is either no fully baked or that is already technologically out of date. It is very sad that Paul can use the Ferrari story about MP3 players as an example of how short sighted our society has become.

A staggering number -- 80% of the clothing thrown in the trash in our country is perfectly usable as clothing. Nearly 100% could be turned into useful scrap if recycled. But clothing makes up around 8% of the regional landfill in our area. We are throwing away perfectly good stuff for no better reason than fashion -- and employing overseas workers. Arrrrgggh!

 

[Gas-Powered Awesome]

1. I've already run into the issue of note being able to repair a mid-80's motorcycle that I restored mechanically to perfect working condition but it still didn't work well because the brain box was malfunctioning. New brain boxes don't exist and reverse engineering either doesn't work because the original parts aren't made any more, or more to the point, it would take far more sophisticated knowledge than I have. The bike went to scrap

The answer is learn more. Or find someone who has the knowledge. Again, read what I wrote above about the very rare Buick "brain box". Also look up Megasquirt. "Brain boxes" are easily replaceable because there are small, cheap general-purpose computers out there that can be easily programmed to replace old, unsophisticated computers from the 1980s. Look up Arduino.

The "disposable" notion is really an unfortunate comment on our society. We really don't build things to be used perpetually and people are so focused on the latest thing that they really don't care. From this we end up buying stuff that is either no fully baked or that is already technologically out of date. It is very sad that Paul can use the Ferrari story about MP3 players as an example of how short sighted our society has become.

I get what you are saying, but you can't discount that the short-sighted, market-driven, kinda-democratic societal system has given us the highest standard of living the World has ever seen. Every other scheme for society that has been tried has ended badly. This one probably will too because humans are deeply flawed (we suck). We are unlikely to ever be able to agree on or make a perfect society.

 

[Ekh]

The answer is learn more. Or find someone who has the knowledge. Again, read what I wrote above about the very rare Buick "brain box". Also look up Megasquirt. "Brain boxes" are easily replaceable because there are small, cheap general-purpose computers out there that can be easily programmed to replace old, unsophisticated computers from the 1980s. Look up Arduino.

I get what you are saying, but you can't discount that the short-sighted, market-driven, kinda-democratic societal system has given us the highest standard of living the World has ever seen. Every other scheme for society that has been tried has ended badly. This one probably will too because humans are deeply flawed (we suck). We are unlikely to ever be able to agree on or make a perfect society.

I am willing to argue that in our country the pursuit of a "higher standard of living" has been interpreted as rampant materialism way beyond what's needed for health and well being. The result is the economic fracturing of our society and the genuine danger we have placed ourselves in, ecologically, spiritually, politically, and socially. Elio is one small stroke in the right direction. It is aimed precisely at the kind of moderation and right-sizing that we really do need.

 

[Gas-Powered Awesome]

The elio will have HUGE volume and likely lots of enthusiasts so I feel it will have a longer life than that motorcycle but I also believe that many many many vehicles built today will not be repairable in 50, or even 30 years.

I hope you are right about Elio!

Everything is repairable, given enough money. All vehicles built 30-50 years ago are repairable, it's just that nobody wants to and/or has the money.

It's much closer to the truth to say that many, many vehicles built today will not be worth repairing 30 to 50 years from now. Nobody is going to be restoring Camry's for any amount of money. (Wait, I take that back. There is always some fruitcake out there bucking convention. ) But there will be people spending money on maintaining Koenigsegg One:1's, Ferrari La Ferrari's, and Mustang GT 350R's.

 

[Gas-Powered Awesome]

I am willing to argue that in our country the pursuit of a "higher standard of living" has been interpreted as rampant materialism way beyond what's needed for health and well being. The result is the economic fracturing of our society and the genuine danger we have placed ourselves in, ecologically, spiritually, politically, and socially. Elio is one small stroke in the right direction. It is aimed precisely at the kind of moderation and right-sizing that we really do need.

I don't disagree, but as I said, we suck, we are flawed. The materialism is an undesirable side effect, but you have the luxury of observing that from (I assume) a comfortable seat in a comfortable, climate-controlled home after having a satisfying breakfast. You are noting your observation on a personal supercomputer powered by a ubiquitous grid of highly reliable electric power, connected to a global network that allows you to instantly communicate and exchange information about our horrible society with just about the entire World. Our society sucks, don't it?

 

[WilliamH]

I hope you are right about Elio!

Everything is repairable, given enough money. All vehicles built 30-50 years ago are repairable, it's just that nobody wants to and/or has the money.

It's much closer to the truth to say that many, many vehicles built today will not be worth repairing 30 to 50 years from now. Nobody is going to be restoring Camry's for any amount of money. (Wait, I take that back. There is always some fruitcake out there bucking convention. ) But there will be people spending money on maintaining Koenigsegg One:1's, Ferrari La Ferrari's, and Mustang GT 350R's.

It's interesting. A lot of the comments about disposable products seem to come from the north east. And as far as they go, they may be accurate for that area.
On the other hand, on a regular basis I see cars with other cars in on I10 or US83 that look like they were probably ready to be junked. These are mostly 10 year old or older smallish cars and in many cases trucks loaded with old bicycles and
other things that have been used and discarded.
In all likely hood, these are on their way to Mexico to be refurbished and re sold. We looked at them as junk. Some of our neighbors to the south look at them as valuable.
Which goes back to ..."Everything is repairable, given enough money".
But it isn't really money. It's the cost of labor to repair the product.
In 2011 I got rid of a nice 1994 Dakota. The engine ran good, didn't use much oil, but the blower motor for the HVAC was causing problems. It was going to cost $500 to replace a $30 part. And how long till the next part broke. And I had just had a new heater core and AC condenser installed. So I cut my losses and got a new Ford.
My guess is the Dakota was probably wholesaled to someone from Mexico and resold there at a profit.