The Real P5 ?

[Adamant]

I'll throw in my two cents, I just googled harmonic balancer, and Wikipedia says it also helps the crank shaft from failing.

"At certain engine speeds the torques imparted by the cylinders are in sync with the vibrations in the crankshaft, which results in a phenomenon called resonance. This resonance causes stress beyond what the crankshaft can withstand, resulting in crankshaft failure. To prevent this vibration, a harmonic balancer is attached to the front part of the crankshaft."

I read somewhere they'll probably take it off eventually. Must add too much to the overall cost. Though I wonder how they'll fix any issues of not having it?

 

[slinches]

They'll probably have a harmonic balancer, it just won't be one of the expensive adjustable ones. It'll be a fixed balancer like on most other engines.

The reason that they have an adjustable one on there now is that it's needed as part of the development process. Unfortunately, you can't just design a perfectly tuned harmonic balancer on paper. There needs to be some testing done once the engine is installed into the vehicle to determine the exact resonant frequencies of the engine as a whole on its mounts and the modes of the crankshaft as actually built. Even then, it'll probably take several attempts to come up with a set of balance parameters that are effective.

I mean, it is possible to design an engine to not need one, but I doubt it would be any cheaper or perform as well.

 

[John Painter]

I have a question, if you would like to ask it.

At the LA invitation event, Paul Elio said, 90 days after production starts, the production rate would be 1000 per day. He also said the stores would open 12 months after production starts.

This means reservations would be filled after 5 to 6 months (with the stores would not be open until 12 months after production starts). This means there will be about 6 months of full rate production, producing 125,000 vehicles with no stores for them to be sold at.

My question is: "What is going to happen to these 125,000 vehicles?" The marshaling centers would not be holding this many. I doubt reservations will increase that much from the LA Auto show to consume these vehicles. Is these going to be a large number of fleet sales we do not know about?

Here is another question: "How many fleet sales are not included in the reservation number?"

PE questioned what was going to happen in that time period too in an interview earlier this year, I don't remember which one but think it was at St. Francis. I asked EM directly a year ago if fleet sales are included in the count on their website, the response was less than direct but the indicated it probably was e.g. that Brendan (Carey) shares his numbers. So, who knows.

 

[Ekh]

interesting .... once they get things ironed out, I'd tend to believe that the interior will more or less be pop-in or quickly bolted-in segments .... I can see how having to make the frame ready to accommodate the installs could take a while .... I bet that motor and tranny have been taken in and out a bunch of times already .... it would really be nice to see a picture of the P5 as it stands today

According to Jerome, they have had the whole engine in and out several times as you suggest, body panels on and off repeatedly, etc.

 

[Ekh]

Latest P5 pics.....
View attachment 7350

The bottom picture really helps. This thing is looking safer all the time ... and the possibilities for a sunroom seem to be growing, too!

 

[Ekh]

They'll probably have a harmonic balancer, it just won't be one of the expensive adjustable ones. It'll be a fixed balancer like on most other engines.

The reason that they have an adjustable one on there now is that it's needed as part of the development process. Unfortunately, you can't just design a perfectly tuned harmonic balancer on paper. There needs to be some testing done once the engine is installed into the vehicle to determine the exact resonant frequencies of the engine as a whole on its mounts and the modes of the crankshaft as actually built. Even then, it'll probably take several attempts to come up with a set of balance parameters that are effective.

I mean, it is possible to design an engine to not need one, but I doubt it would be any cheaper or perform as well.

Damping down a 3-banger without a harmonic balancer would be tough indeed.

 

[Bilbo B]

I have a question, if you would like to ask it.

This means reservations would be filled after 5 to 6 months (with the stores would not be open until 12 months after production starts). This means there will be about 6 months of full rate production, producing 125,000 vehicles with no stores for them to be sold at.

My question is: "What is going to happen to these 125,000 vehicles?" The marshaling centers would not be holding this many. I doubt reservations will increase that much from the LA Auto show to consume these vehicles. Is these going to be a large number of fleet sales we do not know about?
.

I suspect reservations will really take off at some point when it becomes apparent that they really are going to build them. If you look at it realistically, there's no compelling reason to make a reservation right now (ignoring the emotional/support Elio factor). Going back through the 'Elio Reservations" thread, I found this "Number of current reservations: 43,671 as of Jul 6, 2015". Right now it's 46.561. At a thousand vehicles a day, if those were all "All In - $1000" reservations, you'd get your car three days later if you placed your reservation today than you would have if you' had done it back in July. If you're not sure about things, why commit now? To maybe get your Elio a week or two earlier, IF they actually build them? Should they announce the end of the bonus program (again) or ATVM loan approval, I expect you'll see a spike (probably a much larger spike for ATVM approval). I'm fairly confident that once it's clear that they are going to be built, those 125,000 vehicles will get snapped up quickly

 

[Coss]

I have a question, if you would like to ask it.

At the LA invitation event, Paul Elio said, 90 days after production starts, the production rate would be 1000 per day. He also said the stores would open 12 months after production starts.

This means reservations would be filled after 5 to 6 months (with the stores would not be open until 12 months after production starts). This means there will be about 6 months of full rate production, producing 125,000 vehicles with no stores for them to be sold at.

My question is: "What is going to happen to these 125,000 vehicles?" The marshaling centers would not be holding this many. I doubt reservations will increase that much from the LA Auto show to consume these vehicles. Is these going to be a large number of fleet sales we do not know about?

Here is another question: "How many fleet sales are not included in the reservation number?"

Your Fleet question was asked and answered before; yes, the fleet sales are included in the total reservation count, but there are currently just a few. A fleet sale is considered 5 or more ordered by the same person/group and with the full All In $1K deposit. They are expecting more fleet sales after production starts for the groups that have approached them already. In other words, "we'll wait until it's real before we commit."

 

[skygazer6033]

The simplest way to build an engine that doesn't need a harmonic balance is to have a massive crankshaft. 221 cu. In. Flathead Fords had no harmonic balance but a massive crank and were smooth as silk. Another way (which works with a 3 cyl. engine) is to keep it very small. A small stiff crank would have a resonance frequency so high you'd never reach that RPM anyway. .9 litre probably wouldn't need much of a balancer anyway.

 

[Coss]

The bottom picture really helps. This thing is looking safer all the time ... and the possibilities for a sunroom seem to be growing, too!

Sunroom???? What's a sunroom? I thought they were screened in porches on houses.