Start Stop System

[Jim H]

Keep it simple and don't force redesigns that delay production. Someone will make after market parts/kits for those who want them

 

[DBN477]

The reason they are not common here is they are not required and car companies have found American buyers claim not to like it. In many cars there is literally no additional hardware needed just some software code. Amazingly in many cars they don't even use the starter to restart the engine. The computer knows the engine position and just restarts combustion.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

It's the cost. The exchange rate isn't favorable. That's only according to Mini owners that contacted Mini asking why they don't have start/stop on their cars when our European counterparts have it on their car. I have driven an X3 with start/stop in the city. Start/stop system $300 - $400 option on cars where it is available. With little research, it looks like the agm battery costs about 3 times the price of a conventional battery. I doubt a start/stop would significantly improve mpg for Elio for the majority of potential future owners, to the point it would not be worth the extra money. For a car, suv, or truck, even with minimal idling it would be worth the cost.

 

[Ty]

Honda uses the piston position method of starting back up. When you lift your foot off the brake, a little squirt of fuel and a spark gets it running. Thinking about it, that really wouldn't be expensive at all. There isn't even a special starter required. But, if you had a starter/alternator-generator, as you slow below 10, the engine could cut off and pre-position the cylinder, the alternator thing could charge up either the battery or even a small capacitor to light the spark or to keep the electric a/c going. Good call, goofyone.

 

[goofyone]

Honda uses the piston position method of starting back up. When you lift your foot off the brake, a little squirt of fuel and a spark gets it running. Thinking about it, that really wouldn't be expensive at all. There isn't even a special starter required. But, if you had a starter/alternator-generator, as you slow below 10, the engine could cut off and pre-position the cylinder, the alternator thing could charge up either the battery or even a small capacitor to light the spark or to keep the electric a/c going. Good call, goofyone.

A lot of inexpensive cars are doing start/stop the combustion way we have mentioned just because they don't need any extra hardware so it's cheap. The disadvantage to the combustion method is generally these cars just run a serpentine belt so nothing is running during short duration stops and the engine will eventually have to turn on if you are stopped for longer than a few minutes. You can get around this via electric accessories or an electric assist motor for the serpentine belt or the starter/alternator-generator systems however to run these you also need the more expensive AGM battery which DBN477 has mentioned the Mini needs.

 

[lafrisbee]

So one mentioned that are a larger vehicle start stop is a better idea, and wouldn't help the EE Driver so much. The way I look at it is that the advantage would be fuel savings, and EE sips fuel so the start/stop system would save even More mpg than on an SUV.
As a four hundred dollar option I am willing to pay for it.

 

[Brainmatter]

A lot of inexpensive cars are doing start/stop the combustion way we have mentioned just because they don't need any extra hardware so it's cheap. The disadvantage to the combustion method is generally these cars just run a serpentine belt so nothing is running during short duration stops and the engine will eventually have to turn on if you are stopped for longer than a few minutes. You can get around this via electric accessories or an electric assist motor for the serpentine belt or the starter/alternator-generator systems however to run these you also need the more expensive AGM battery which DBN477 has mentioned the Mini needs.

You guys are forgetting several key factors.There are a ton of other things stop/start vehicles do that you are taking for granted.
Start stop is coming to the U.S. (because of C.A.F.E requirements) but is is far from 'cheap'. In the U.S, all cars basically have to have a backup system for power brakes and power steering at a minimum. Otherwise, what happens when you are sitting at a light and some other factor causes you to lose brake assist? Or you can't turn the wheel to avoid an accident before moving... lawsuit. It sounds unreasonable, but it is not. That means as previously mentioned, electrically assisted power steering systems (pump or steering gear/rack itself) and power brake systems (again, either direct or indirect) at a minimum. Power steering may not be an issue on the elio if it does not come equipped, but power brakes will be. Also, many customers don't like it when the A/c or heat stops working when the engine does. There are many very good ways to prevent this, but they add cost. But the biggest hurdle to a cheap car will be the added expense for what is technically a hybrid braking system. This will also require an upgraded electrical system capable of exceeding expectations (stuck at that red light for hours with your foot on the brake? I don't think so, but it has to be litigation proof). So now, you've depleted that AGM battery pretty good and need to recharge it, quickly for the next light.... bigger alternator. The horspower draw of a big alternator can be impressive... so there goes your city economy because that big alternator is trying to recharge the batt... That's why most cars in the U.S. which will use Stop/start will be classified as mild hybrids: by the time they get done doing the 'easy' stuff, adding in regenerative braking is very cost effective. Now you have a mild hybrid and you are charged accordingly for it.

 

[Brainmatter]

So one mentioned that are a larger vehicle start stop is a better idea, and wouldn't help the EE Driver so much. The way I look at it is that the advantage would be fuel savings, and EE sips fuel so the start/stop system would save even More mpg than on an SUV.
As a four hundred dollar option I am willing to pay for it.

It would save even less in the elio. I'm guessing here, but the way the engine seems to be configured in the elio, it will be able to sit and idle at a stop very efficiently. because it gets such good economy the percentage of fuel saved with a stop/start would be very small.
Big ol SUV's use quite a bit of fuel even when idling.

Stop start just does not make much sense in this case IMO.

 

[ecdriver711]

Would not restarting an engine put more wear on it? I'm asking because I've always heard that starting an engine puts more wear than idling a few minutes. Just curious cause I don't really know myself.

 

[goofyone]

Would not restarting an engine put more wear on it? I'm asking because I've always heard that starting an engine puts more wear than idling a few minutes. Just curious cause I don't really know myself.

Many people have been told that turning the engine off and on again will cause more wear and also use more fuel however with modern engines this is not the case. If the engine is already up to operating temperature and you don't let it cool down too much then you should wear less, and use less fuel, than if it stayed running during that time. They even manage to reduce extra wear on the starter in many of these systems by restarting the engine without using the starter.

 

[lafrisbee]

I am just a chick, so I will say it, I just want one because I like the idea.