48 Volt Hybrids Coming In Just Over A Year!

[acamara]

It would. The Elio will already be able to go 15,000 miles for $536 which is about what people drive per year. Electric at $.02 would cost $300 for those same 15,000 miles. You'd save $236 per year. If the electric version adds $1,150, it would take 4 years to break even. If it were $2,300, it would take 8 years to break even. And THAT is why it'll be hard to sell an electric version.

I realize that this is an old thread but thought that oit would be interesting to revive it.

For the Elio to travel 15,000 miles and spend only $536 it would mean then that the Elio was averaging about 70mpg with gas price of about $2.50/gal.

Some EVs are able to drive 50 miles on a full charge but this would depend of course on the size of the Battery and the weight of the Vehicle.

I have been researching the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV which is not yet available in North America but in England and Austrilia and New Zealon where they are Available they have been reporting 35 Miles on 12kWh fully Charged battery traveling at 60 Mph, so let us try to do the math on this.

Our Electricity costs $0.078 per kWH so to charge a 12kWh Battery it would cost around $0.93. So if it costs $0.93 to travel 35 Miles, to travel 15,000 miles it would cost 15,000/35* $0.93 = $398.00. A savings of $137.43 if all the driving were on EV Mode but that would be unrealistic so some Gasoline would be used. I have no calculations for that but the calculations done by Outlander PHEV drives indicated that using Electric and Gas at 50/50 rate they were getting close to 70MPG. Since in Hybrid Mode would regenerate power to Batteries when cruising or slowing down.

All in all I found the information and the Efficiency of this PHEV to be very impressive. Especially when we consider the Fact that this Vehicle is a full sized SUVand has a 2L ICE/Motor in the Front and an Electric Motor in the Back and a total Gross weight of 4,800 lbs.

Can you imagine what kind of Efficiency the Elio would have at 1/4th the weight?

I bet the Battery could be 1/4th the Size and weight and the ICE 1/2 the size.

Comments?

 

[acamara]

10,000 Watts / 48 Volts = 208 Amps. Regeneration at claimed 12,500 Watt / 48 Volts = 260 Amps. Figure minimum 300 Amps wiring for safety margin means 0000 AWG (quadruple-ought American wire gauge) wiring. That's two 1/2-inch thick copper cables going from the motor to the battery in the back of the car. I don't understand how that wiring is cheaper than configuring the lead-carbon batteries into higher-voltage arrangements. High-voltage hybrids have not proven to be a safety hazard either. The lower voltage doesn't make them any safer from short circuits. In fact I think the very large cables and high-current batteries makes dangerous arc flashes that jump the fuses/circuit breakers more likely.

Agreed not realistic to use 48V Batteries for EV Vehicles. With such High Amperage to Invert from DC to AC would take some quite large components not to mention the Magnetic Fields that would be caused on the DC side of the Cables.

300VDC to 400VDC are better suited for EV. HEV and PHEV operation

 

[Gas-Powered Awesome]

Vaporware.

Thread started September 2014. Now it's July 2016. Mr. Workman was correct.

 

[Ty]

Not sure I agree with your scam assessment. Yes, American auto makers Have used the word Hybrid to Scam many people into believing they are better or even Tried to make them hybrid but most are BS. Making an SUV that goes from 17mpg to 20mpg is NOT a hybrid and you will NEVER cover your investment even if it worked forever. There are companies however that do make efficient and affordable products and the BS about short life batteries was conceived by the automakers that don't have a Clue how to build a Real hybrid. I still have a Gen 1 Honda Insight (2006) that I average (city and highway driving) 71 mpg. Not a one time trip but an actual output of the lifetime milage calculator. I currently have 195k miles on it with only one brake bad set and oil changes at 8k intervals. Still runs like the day I got it. Not a car for most (having only 2 seats) but the technology for true efficiency has been around (and affordable) for a long time. The Honda Insight has been around since 1999, the US had plenty of time to copy designs like this (as the Chinese do so well) but they were to focused on convincing people that batteries only last 20k miles and SUV Hummers were the only way to roll. Pfffft! Took them 10 years to come up with the Volt POS. Now That is a hybrid that will Never ROI ever! A Hybrid design in my opinion will always make the most sense so long as the word Hybrid is not sold merely as a marketing name.

If the insight was such a wonderful success, why did they kill it in the Japanese market and now the U.S. market? I get that consumers can be idiots but really, the insight just didn't fit the bill for most people. I'm sure a big part of the horrible sales was because the thing is... well, not beautiful. (Personal opinion, of course and it's great that we don't all like the same things or else this world would get quite boring fast.)

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Agreed not realistic to use 48V Batteries for EV Vehicles. With such High Amperage to Invert from DC to AC would take some quite large components not to mention the Magnetic Fields that would be caused on the DC side of the Cables.

300VDC to 400VDC are better suited for EV. HEV and PHEV operation

Upping the voltage has its advantages, it also creates a hazardous work environment for maintainers and, in the event of a crash, the rescue team.

 

[acamara]

Upping the voltage has its advantages, it also creates a hazardous work environment for maintainers and, in the event of a crash, the rescue team.

Yes higher voltage has it's hazards but not sure any Hybrid vehicles made by any manufactuer uses less than 300VDC Batteries

 

[Gas-Powered Awesome]

Upping the voltage has its advantages, it also creates a hazardous work environment for maintainers and, in the event of a crash, the rescue team.

True, but it's been more than a decade and a half since the first high-voltage hybrids hit the streets. The problems were addressed directly in the designs and solved long ago. If they hadn't, the news media would have inflated the smallest occurrence into an International Incident of Epic Proportions. Like they do now every time somebody wrecks their Tesla.

All hybrids and BEV's incorporate a simple device that all first responders are well-trained to use:

In the case of the Honda Insight, this splits the battery pack in two, with each half having non-hazardous voltage. I think all emergency disconnects are designed to split packs into sections below hazardous voltage levels.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

True, but it's been more than a decade and a half since the first high-voltage hybrids hit the streets. The problems were addressed directly in the designs and solved long ago. If they hadn't, the news media would have inflated the smallest occurrence into an International Incident of Epic Proportions. Like they do now every time somebody wrecks their Tesla.

All hybrids and BEV's incorporate a simple device that all first responders are well-trained to use:

View attachment 10836

In the case of the Honda Insight, this splits the battery pack in two, with each half having non-hazardous voltage. I think all emergency disconnects are designed to split packs into sections below hazardous voltage levels.

Do you honestly think it's THAT simple?

It's not.

There are breach considerations, circuit shorts, system drain times, ruptured battery pack and type of battery pack.

Tell you what. I'll go turn off a switch and you go ahead and touch that exposed wire.

 

[Gas-Powered Awesome]

Do you honestly think it's THAT simple?

It's not.

It is.

Go read something before attacking me: https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders

All of the considerations you mention are there, clearly documented. Disabling the pack in a Tesla requires cutting one wire loop in the front trunk.

More than a decade of experience by maintainers and first responders, yet no big stories about how either are being killed by high-voltage hybrids or EVs. So, Again, this is a solved problem. Pick some other topic to whinge about.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

It is.

Go read something before attacking me: https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders

All of the considerations you mention are there, clearly documented. Disabling the pack in a Tesla requires cutting one wire loop in the front trunk.

More than a decade of experience by maintainers and first responders, yet no big stories about how either are being killed by high-voltage hybrids or EVs. So, Again, this is a solved problem. Pick some other topic to whinge about.

Quite the victum aren't you?