3/4/2015 - Elio Motors Tech Talk V58 - Recent Frontal Crash Test Simulation

Nice to see the high resolution and slo-mo, it tells us a lot. I wonder what the speed of the simulation is? Seeing that the rear of the Elio does not rise much in the impact, and the effect on the front end compression, makes me think that the speed is not that high. I would guess maybe a 30 mph impact? I also wonder how this will do in the offset front impact and side impact tests. Do they test for a rear ender? Given the gas tank location I hope the Elio is not a 21st century Pinto .

I would also guess that, given the purchase price and the amount of damage sustained, I bet that even minor Elio accidents will total the vehicle. Means second hand parts are going to be abundant and cheap.

Here is a nice comparison of the older simulation versus the new one:

[Broken External Image]

I wonder when we will get to see some new rear impact images

Jeff Bowlsby said:

Nice to see the high resolution and slo-mo, it tells us a lot. I wonder what the speed of the simulation is? Seeing that the rear of the Elio does not rise much in the impact, and the effect on the front end compression, makes me think that the speed is not that high. I would guess maybe a 30 mph impact? I also wonder how this will do in the offset front impact and side impact tests. Do they test for a rear ender? Given the gas tank location I hope the Elio is not a 21st century Pinto .

I would also guess that, given the purchase price and the amount of damage sustained, I bet that even minor Elio accidents will total the vehicle. Means second hand parts are going to be abundant and cheap.

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Hard to really tell what the impact speed is without more information however 30 MPH is likely a good guess as a standard impact test speed. Offset front should be just fine as far as safety goes as all that would happen is that the font end outrigger wheel and suspension assembly gets ripped off. It is my understanding that the Elio is actually stronger in side impacts than many vehicles on the road as it uses essentially the same door structure as most any vehicle providing the same side impact strength but that is reinforced by a fully boxed roll cage chassis which includes short fully boxed cross members which do not flex much so side impact energy is very effectively controlled by the roll cage chassis. The fuel tank location takes advantage of the roll cage chassis by being inside a reinforced box of steel members which is structurally one of the strongest areas of the entire chassis. It is hard for many people to understand just how how strong and different the Elio chassis is as it is more comparable to what is used in race cars than the stamped steel uni-body vehicles most of us are used to seeing on the road.

In the insurance thread we have discussed extensively that due to repair labor costs it is very true that Elio vehicles are likely to be declared totaled by insurance companies at a much higher rate than similar aged cars. This is just the way insurance company math works however you are likely correct that there will likely be a good size market for salvaged Elio parts which is not exactly a bad thing for many of us DIY types.

Want to know how well a caged frame works?? Check these out!

http://www.nationalspeedsportnews.c...-fremont-woo-sept-28-julia-johnson-photos-62/

http://www.onedirt.com/news/lee-grosz-gets-some-serious-air-during-knoxville-crash/

http://www.ldnews.com/ci_18562085

Here's a view of a typical frame, look familiar?

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...3VNGQL4LUggTysYH4AQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CG8QMyhLMEs

For autos, who gives 5 star ratings? The government? People will believe the government but the government has said they will not test it because it is a motorcycle, so the government is out.

We the reservationist with our different demographics, are more technically minded and will understand simulations and accept them. If people hear the rating comes from Altair, people will say Al-who? When they discover Altair was working for Elio Motors and accepting money from Elio Motors for that work, people will just "roll their eyes" and walk away.

The safety ratings may have to come from insurance companies who do their own testing and give their own ratings. People will tend to think of them as more impartial. The insurance companies may accept simulations just as the government, but actual physical testing will be more convincing to customers. Perhaps this is why EM is building vehicles for actual crash testing.

Here is the way a company with "Big Bucks" solved the crash tests for a lightweight small type vehicle. Of course it was alum. not steel.
InsightCentral.net - Encyclopedia - Honda Insight Aluminum Construction

Willie
I hopes it works out for Elio.

As long as the occupants don't get 'totaled' in a crash, I'm fine with turning the Elio into a parts car/autocycle.

W. WIllie said:

Here is the way a company with "Big Bucks" solved the crash tests for a lightweight small type vehicle. Of course it was alum. not steel.
InsightCentral.net - Encyclopedia - Honda Insight Aluminum Construction

Willie
I hopes it works out for Elio.

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Man, that is interesting. There is SO much engineering in a modern vehicle that us just not at all apparent to the average person, even to folks like us who are mechanically curious, and to the vast majority of drivers, just a car.

This graphically shows how far we've come.

2009 Chevy Malibu vs 1959 Bel Air Crash Test:

W. WIllie said:

Here is the way a company with "Big Bucks" solved the crash tests for a lightweight small type vehicle. Of course it was alum. not steel.
InsightCentral.net - Encyclopedia - Honda Insight Aluminum Construction

Willie
I hopes it works out for Elio.

Click to expand...

Very interesting link. I especially found this part interesting:

The unit-body part of the Insight's body uses stressed sheet-metal panels to absorb and distribute structural and suspension loads, much like an ordinary steel unit body. However, with the Insight's body all of these panels, including the roof, floor, front and rear wheel wells, rear quarter-panels, bulkhead, and even the doors and hood, are made of aluminum alloy. These stressed panels are reinforced in key areas by aluminum-alloy frame members.

It is these aluminum frame members and their cast-aluminum connecting joints that make the Insight's hybrid body so unique. In a steel unit body, frame members are formed by stamping in large presses and then joined to the body by welding. However, the Insight uses extruded frame members. Extrusions are drawn from a die in much the same way that tubing is made, and like tubing are of constant cross section. Once formed, extrusions can be easily made into complex three-dimensional pieces, such as a curved windshield frame. They also do not require any additional machining or finishing after they are formed.

http://www.insightcentral.net/encyclopedia/enaluminum.html

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The core of the Honda Insight chassis is a space-frame made up of extruded aluminum frame rails which meet at cast aluminum joints which is essentially the same engineering idea as that behind EM's steel box tube space-frame chassis design. The Elio simply uses its space-frame as the entire chassis thus avoiding the need for stressed body panel structures.

pistonboy said:

For autos, who gives 5 star ratings? The government? People will believe the government but the government has said they will not test it because it is a motorcycle, so the government is out.

We the reservationist with our different demographics, are more technically minded and will understand simulations and accept them. If people hear the rating comes from Altair, people will say Al-who? When they discover Altair was working for Elio Motors and accepting money from Elio Motors for that work, people will just "roll their eyes" and walk away.

The safety ratings may have to come from insurance companies who do their own testing and give their own ratings. People will tend to think of them as more impartial. The insurance companies may accept simulations just as the government, but actual physical testing will be more convincing to customers. Perhaps this is why EM is building vehicles for actual crash testing.

Click to expand...

The NHTSA grants car safety ratings however most of these are granted on the basis of manufacturer submitted information from NHTSA accredited labs and simulation companies. The NHTSA only directly tests production vehicles purchased randomly at retail and the insurance industry also uses this same protocol to ensure that testing is representative of actual production vehicles. EM has said they would request that the NHTSA test the vehicle however this is far from certain to happen as the NHTSA does not test motorcycles and even if this does happen it will happen some time after vehicles are available at retail. Insurance testing will also likely happen at some point however this will also very likely happen after retail sales have begun as this is the way they do it also.

As long as I have been following EM they have been saying that they would conduct their own physical crash testing program and while this is done for engineering verification purposes the biggest advantage to EM is in terms of marketing. This is because as long as EM can back up their safety claims with test data from an accredited testing lab they do not have to worry much about false advertising claims. With properly documented safety data in hand there is little stopping EM from advertising that their vehicle meets the NHTSA standards for occupant safety even if the NHTSA does not actually test it directly. What EM would advertise is something along the lines of "our vehicle has undergone extensive crash testing and meets the NHTSA five star automobile safety standards for occupant safety." In such a statement they never actually claim to have received an NHTSA five star rating nor do they even claim to have met all the safety standards as the statement is restricted to occupant safety. Comparably few mass market buyers would even notice the wording and for those that do EM will have the data to back it up.