Turborize Me

[lafrisbee]

So I would rather have a horse, even though I have never owned a horse. I dislike "cars." I am drawn to the EE because it wastes less of my money. I don't lift the hood on my truck if it has a problem. I do not put air in its tires. Those are someone else's area of expertise. (Yes I can open the hood if you give me enough time to figure it out)
So of course I would rather take a bath than try and find out about turbos on the EE.
So if you have an idea, or have some real knowledge, would you share it in this thread so i can be a little more understanding of putting a turbo on the EE, or it having the option.
Yes I know, more power less mpg. We don't need to have this thread hijacked by that. I just want to know about how doable is a turbo, and how much you all think it could cost and how difficult would it be to get one for the current chosen engine, or could it be done after purchase without there being a hassle with it.
Anyone know anything?

 

[goofyone]

What I have read several places, and I hope to discuss with them in person later this week, is that IAV is working on a turbo kit for this motor. I have not heard if this will be officially available as an option or as an aftermarket only item. The original Suzuki motor this motor is based on was designed to accommodate a turbo and if IAV is truly working on that option it would not surprise me if this one is designed with a turbo in mind also.

A properly designed kit should be fairly straight forward to install for someone who knows that they are doing. I would say it is an advanced job for an amateur however a good mechanic could do it correctly in a couple of hours. As for cost I have seen name brand street rated aftermarket turbo kits for small engines run about $1500-2500 for the kit plus installation. From the factory my guess is the option would likely run about the same cost but of course would be covered under the cars warranty while an aftermarket installation would likely void said warranty.

I would love to see a factory turbo option. I am not sure I would buy one however it would definitely make a lot more people interested in this vehicle as there are people who would love something that looks this different yet also has a sporty demeanor on the road.

 

[Ty]

What a kick it would be to be able to unleash the turbo when needed. A turbo is a decent way to get more HP without killing mileage... At least, that's what all the diesel engine guys are doing.

 

[jtmarten]

There are several threads already dealing with this. Search search search.

It all depends on the CR. I read the IAV will be a high compression engine; which is not conducive to any forced induction, unless you like turning pistons into gravel. I haven't seen any data on the actual CR expected though, so 'high compression' is a relative term at this point.
A turbo will be an excellent choice if the CR isn't too high (one that I'll look at assuming a low enough CR). My Saab 93 jumped from 210hp/220tq to 260hp/285tq with just a tune and a K&N drop-in filter. Not bad for an otherwise stock 2.0L 4-banger.

 

[raybonz]

What a kick it would be to be able to unleash the turbo when needed. A turbo is a decent way to get more HP without killing mileage... At least, that's what all the diesel engine guys are doing.

I think all modern diesels have turbo's..

 

[Brainmatter]

There are several threads already dealing with this. Search search search.

It all depends on the CR. I read the IAV will be a high compression engine; which is not conducive to any forced induction, unless you like turning pistons into gravel. I haven't seen any data on the actual CR expected though, so 'high compression' is a relative term at this point.
A turbo will be an excellent choice if the CR isn't too high (one that I'll look at assuming a low enough CR). My Saab 93 jumped from 210hp/220tq to 260hp/285tq with just a tune and a K&N drop-in filter. Not bad for an otherwise stock 2.0L 4-banger.

That is just not true.
Most modern turbo engines have a (relatively) high compression ratio. The relatively vanilla GM ecotec 1.4L Turbo has a compression ratio 9.5:1. ( http://www.gminsidenews.com/index.php?page=Engine_Guide ) The Ford EcoBoost engines run about 10.0:1. The 3 cylinder 1.0L EcoBoost has 10.5:1. They are able to accomplish this with precise fuel metering and timing controls among other things.
If this engine is a VVT design as has been mentioned, it is very easy to effectively reduce damaging detonation by changing exhaust cam timing or even duration as needed to reduce combustion chamber temps. They decrease volumetric efficiency under boost which is kind of like reducing compression ratio. It kills efficiency under boost, but at that time, efficiency isn't really what is being called for.
It is definitely no free lunch. If you have your foot in it a lot, mileage is gonna stink. I'd expect city economy figures would be reduced quite a bit. Depending of course on how the system is tuned.

 

[mike171]

I did some quick calculations and came up with a few numbers. To get 100hp from the 900cc AIV engine would require a 66% increase in airflow. This equates to 9.7 psi and 166 cfm at a pressure ratio of 1.66. A turbonetics T3 40 trim wheel with a .25 A/R ratio housing should deliver the desired results without running too hot. Now, the rest of this is pure speculation as I don't know hard numbers for this engine. It is speculated that this motor will be direct injected which traditionally would allow for a fairly high compression ratio. It has been stated that AIV is not pushing the motor hard to achieve 60hp so they may lower the CR slightly. No matter what an intercooler will be mandatory. If it stays at or below 10.5 to 1 then 9.7 psi with a 75% efficient intercooler would theoretically keep the CR at a respectable 12 to 1 calculated. It may be necessary to run water/alcohol injection to control detonation at higher RPM. The fuel supply would also have to be increased by approximately 66% to keep up with the turbo and a major reworking of the engine management software. Now lets factor in the price of the turbo, a custom built intercooler, custom exhaust manifold, oil supply lines to the turbo, re-plumbing the intake, and possibly boring the throttle body for more flow. I would estimate that it could be done for about $4,000 if the bulk of the work was done yourself. If you had to pay someone to do the entire job then add $2,500 in labor. I have built custom turbo systems for motorcycles in the past so I have some experience at this. If you are not completely comfortable under the hood of a car wrenching on the motor then you shouldn't attempt a job like this yourself. Please be respectful of the fact that I took some liberties in generating these numbers because I don't have a full spec sheet on the AIV motor and it's been I few years since I calculated a turbo setup so my math my be off a hair. This is also to build a system from scratch, if a kit was available it would be much cheaper because the custom parts would be included.

 

[Craig]

I did some quick calculations and came up with a few numbers. To get 100hp from the 900cc AIV engine would require a 66% increase in airflow. This equates to 9.7 psi and 166 cfm at a pressure ratio of 1.66. A turbonetics T3 40 trim wheel with a .25 A/R ratio housing should deliver the desired results without running too hot. Now, the rest of this is pure speculation as I don't know hard numbers for this engine. It is speculated that this motor will be direct injected which traditionally would allow for a fairly high compression ratio. It has been stated that AIV is not pushing the motor hard to achieve 60hp so they may lower the CR slightly. No matter what an intercooler will be mandatory. If it stays at or below 10.5 to 1 then 9.7 psi with a 75% efficient intercooler would theoretically keep the CR at a respectable 12 to 1 calculated. It may be necessary to run water/alcohol injection to control detonation at higher RPM. The fuel supply would also have to be increased by approximately 66% to keep up with the turbo and a major reworking of the engine management software. Now lets factor in the price of the turbo, a custom built intercooler, custom exhaust manifold, oil supply lines to the turbo, re-plumbing the intake, and possibly boring the throttle body for more flow. I would estimate that it could be done for about $4,000 if the bulk of the work was done yourself. If you had to pay someone to do the entire job then add $2,500 in labor. I have built custom turbo systems for motorcycles in the past so I have some experience at this. If you are not completely comfortable under the hood of a car wrenching on the motor then you shouldn't attempt a job like this yourself. Please be respectful of the fact that I took some liberties in generating these numbers because I don't have a full spec sheet on the AIV motor and it's been I few years since I calculated a turbo setup so my math my be off a hair. This is also to build a system from scratch, if a kit was available it would be much cheaper because the custom parts would be included.

"Please be respectful of the fact that I took some liberties in generating these numbers"

Hay! Impressed the hell out of me.

 

[lafrisbee]

I did some quick calculations and came up with a few numbers. To get 100hp from the 900cc AIV engine would require a 66% increase in airflow. This equates to 9.7 psi and 166 cfm at a pressure ratio of 1.66. A turbonetics T3 40 trim wheel with a .25 A/R ratio housing should deliver the desired results without running too hot. Now, the rest of this is pure speculation as I don't know hard numbers for this engine. It is speculated that this motor will be direct injected which traditionally would allow for a fairly high compression ratio. It has been stated that AIV is not pushing the motor hard to achieve 60hp so they may lower the CR slightly. No matter what an intercooler will be mandatory. If it stays at or below 10.5 to 1 then 9.7 psi with a 75% efficient intercooler would theoretically keep the CR at a respectable 12 to 1 calculated. It may be necessary to run water/alcohol injection to control detonation at higher RPM. The fuel supply would also have to be increased by approximately 66% to keep up with the turbo and a major reworking of the engine management software. Now lets factor in the price of the turbo, a custom built intercooler, custom exhaust manifold, oil supply lines to the turbo, re-plumbing the intake, and possibly boring the throttle body for more flow. I would estimate that it could be done for about $4,000 if the bulk of the work was done yourself. If you had to pay someone to do the entire job then add $2,500 in labor. I have built custom turbo systems for motorcycles in the past so I have some experience at this. If you are not completely comfortable under the hood of a car wrenching on the motor then you shouldn't attempt a job like this yourself. Please be respectful of the fact that I took some liberties in generating these numbers because I don't have a full spec sheet on the AIV motor and it's been I few years since I calculated a turbo setup so my math my be off a hair. This is also to build a system from scratch, if a kit was available it would be much cheaper because the custom parts would be included.

Ok, then forget about it..I was thinking less than a grand...the only part of this that I could make heads or tails of was the price. I will take your word on all the numbers though.

 

[mike171]

Ok, then forget about it..I was thinking less than a grand...the only part of this that I could make heads or tails of was the price. I will take your word on all the numbers though.

Contrary to popular belief, turbocharging is not cheap.