Friday Blog Is Out

Elio Amazed said:

I'm thinking of coming out with an Elio board game next year.

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More like a 'bored' game.

Watashiwah said:

I think what ESG Engineering ‘delivered to, or provided,’ Elio Motors for ‘engineering services’ (which I believe was essentially worthless), speaks for itself.

How many millions was it?

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It's never been published as to how much Elio Motors paid ESG Engineering. They did get paid in stock but as we know, it's losing ground and that stock has not been sold. If it was, then it would show up on a listing. On the other hand, how much did Elio Motors pay Roush? We have not seen anything from Roush at all, just press releases from Elio Motors. Same for Red Dot, Continental, IAV, Technosports and McLaren. We have no idea the amount that went to those companies either. In the end, what is the result? Not much. So we could claim that Roush is a scam operation (along with the others I mentioned) because they got paid millions and never produced a single item. No 25 E series, no 100 fleet. All of these companies got paid millions (Elio has spent about $62M on R&D) and from what I see, nothing to show for it. See, I can even make Roush look bad if I want to.

Instead of blaming that, maybe just blame the failed business plan. There needed to be 10X the amount of people willing to plop down money for reservations. Even the current reservations only averages out to $427 per reservation. We know that 21,195 did put down $1000 non refundable $7K locked in commit to buy. That means the remaining 44,265 reservations averaged out to $154. So, 68% of the reservation holders didn't invest that much. People spend more than that for a reservation on a crowdfunded drone. On the other hand, it would have looked much better if 3X the amount of people would have went for the $1K locked in price of $7K and commit to buy, yet they did not.

What we need to blame is the business plan. It was built on a massive amount of sales and reservations. They just never got the numbers they needed to make it work. Thus now it's sitting around and waiting for the phone to ring in hopes that Warren Buffett is on the other end.

As much energy, good bit of money and emphasis that was put on marketing - IMHO, they barely scraped the surface of public awareness. I work in a department with some fairly smart and in tune people - and they had never heard of.... much less seen the Elio.

Elio needed a viral “push” to get the numbers I guess they were looking for. For whatever reason, they didn’t get it.

84mpg said:

As much energy, good bit of money and emphasis that was put on marketing - IMHO, they barely scraped the surface of public awareness. I work in a department with some fairly smart and in tune people - and they had never heard of.... much less seen the Elio.

Elio needed a viral “push” to get the numbers I guess they were looking for. For whatever reason, they didn’t get it.

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One major problem was they never let anyone drive it. The general public believes three wheelers are dangerous, thus they just walk by and that’s it. If Elio built 5 of them for test drives then the interest would have been better. They would probably feel better after getting behind the wheel. The majority of Americans test drive a car before purchasing it let alone throwing down $1k non refundable. Especially when it’s a brand new company. Elio only allowed a handful of press to drive it.

Rivian is preparing for test drives and I’ll do one because I want to see what it’s like. As for Elio, I have no idea how it drives. Nobody here does either. Most people have no idea who Rivian is but I bet after the test drive program there will be a bunch of reviews on the Rivian Owners Forum. Then that starts the interest. Plus when every truck and car tag test drives one, they will be on the glossy cover or homepage. Elio never got that. If anyone has heard of Elio, it’s the fender falling off in Manhattan. Not good PR.

RSchneider said:

One major problem was they never let anyone drive it. The general public believes three wheelers are dangerous, thus they just walk by and that’s it. If Elio built 5 of them for test drives then the interest would have been better. They would probably feel better after getting behind the wheel. The majority of Americans test drive a car before purchasing it let alone throwing down $1k non refundable. Especially when it’s a brand new company. Elio only allowed a handful of press to drive it.

Rivian is preparing for test drives and I’ll do one because I want to see what it’s like. As for Elio, I have no idea how it drives. Nobody here does either. Most people have no idea who Rivian is but I bet after the test drive program there will be a bunch of reviews on the Rivian Owners Forum. Then that starts the interest. Plus when every truck and car tag test drives one, they will be on the glossy cover or homepage. Elio never got that. If anyone has heard of Elio, it’s the fender falling off in Manhattan. Not good PR.

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... I think the $1,200,000,000 influx of cash will let Rivian mount a much better advertising campaign than Elio...

Ty said:

... I think the $1,200,000,000 influx of cash will let Rivian mount a much better advertising campaign than Elio...

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Definitely. The difference is, Rivian has a number of people to answer to. Elio does not. Rivan has to convince the gas powered truck/SUV buyers in America that they have something that's worth $70-$100K. That's a big challenge. On the other hand, Rivian is not looking at selling many trucks at all thus it works out for them. Numbers are around 20K - 40K per year in the beginning. It's good to see they are realistic. It's just been over a year since they uncovered their products, so they know they will have to hit it hard to generate the interest to rit their target production numbers.

Elio is looking at making 125K - 250K per year. So that's 5X to 10X the volume. So they need to get way more interest due to the three wheeler market never being successful and Americans are not into small cars. That's a tough sell and thus why you have to work harder to get the interest. Rivian is in the catbird seat due to the pickup market being massive and they have Ford and Amazon behind them. Two names every American knows. I can already tell who Rivian is going after. It's not the 60+ year old white guys (they are too set in their ways) it's the younger ones that are not. Some older white guys will buy a Rivian (typically really rich guys) but those youngsters that want something they can drive to work by themselves every day, haul mulch and lumber in it and then go camping. If it has the range they say, then it's all possible.

Engineering Questions, Answered
August 2, 2019

Something new naturally invites curiosity. Albert Einstein is quoted as saying “The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing.” The Elio is a new vehicle, which by its very nature invites and creates curiosity. As a part of our mission to bring a new vehicle to market, we have endeavored to take our supporters along the journey and provide a unique insight into the process. In a recent Elio blog, we invited our adherents to send in their inquisitive engineering questions. Today, from the archives*, we will answer some of these analytical queries.

When designing and engineering a new vehicle, thousands and thousands of decisions are made to finish the final product. The Elio project and vehicle is driven by four main “musts”: American made, safe, fuel-efficient, and affordable. In a Momentum series, our engineering team has answered some of the great questions that have come in from Elio Motors supporters.

Q: In the recent details page, hill-start assist is mentioned. What is hill-start assist?

The term Hill-start assist refers to a type of braking which prevents a vehicle from rolling backward when facing a gradient angle when using a manual transmission. When a gradient angle is detected, the hill-start system prevents the vehicle from moving as the driver disengages the brake and clutch and presses the gas pedal.



Q: What is the bolt circle and number of lug nuts or lug studs?

The Elio will use a standard 4×100 mm bolt pattern. The tire size for the front is 135/80 R 15 and the rear tire is 175/65 R15. The rim’s nut is an M12 stud which will require an M19 standard socket wrench.



Q: Has any testing been conducted regarding hydroplaning?

Slow speed testing has been conducted, in conjunction with ABS testing, to ensure the Elio’s safety while driving through wet conditions. This testing has included driving at slow speeds through standing water, ice and gravel and the results have been positive. Elio owners can expect the Elio to perform similar to many four-wheeled vehicles on the road today. Two divisions at Continental will lead the charge for testing everything related to the Elio tire leading up to the start of production.

Q: Will the Elio offer a steering knuckle/front suspension anti-squat damper/etc.?

We received a wide variety of inquiries wondering if the Elio will come standard with features typically found on luxury/performance vehicles. Some of the suggested features alone would actually cost more than our targeted base price! Therefore, they will not be included in the Elio as it does not meet one of the four musts (affordable.) Many reasonable options will be available through our ePlus: My Elio, My Way option program, and through the aftermarket.

* Originally published August 30, 2017

Anti Squat has to do with suspension geometry, not dampers. I informed Elio of this back when this originally came out and obviously they decided not to fix it. Same for Anti Dive. It costs exactly the same to do both, just move the pickup points. Requires zero cost. I did notice Elio did raise the front roll center so it didn't look like the silver one that had a massive amount of front roll just driving at 25 mph in a parking lot doing a light turn.

Plus, the Elio has a steering knuckle. It's also called an upright or kingpin. So, Elio might want to fix their Engineering answers.

RSchneider said:

Anti Squat has to do with suspension geometry, not dampers. I informed Elio of this back when this originally came out and obviously they decided not to fix it. Same for Anti Dive. It costs exactly the same to do both, just move the pickup points. Requires zero cost. I did notice Elio did raise the front roll center so it didn't look like the silver one that had a massive amount of front roll just driving at 25 mph in a parking lot doing a light turn.

Plus, the Elio has a steering knuckle. It's also called an upright or kingpin. So, Elio might want to fix their Engineering answers.

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Yes, I'm sure they'd like to fix those stats, but according to their track record, that alone would probably cost $25 Million to accomplish.

Elio Amazed said:

Yes, I'm sure they'd like to fix those stats, but according to their track record, that alone would probably cost $25 Million to accomplish.

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LOL... {sigh}