The Next Generation Elio Engine ? (2-stroke Turbo Diesel)

CheeseheadEarl said:

Soot, and the accompanying black color of the oil is only a small factor. If I changed oil on my tractors based on color, I'd have 10 hour change intervals.

A friend with much more equipment than me, saves almost $10K a year by oil sampling rather than changing oil based solely on miles or hours. With 22,000 hours on an untouched except for regular maintenance motor I don't argue with him.

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I totally agree. However, I'm personally very reluctant to take any diesel of mine beyond the recommended oil change interval because I consider an extra oil change or two far cheaper than an engine rebuild. Two of my sons own BMWs fitted with 2.0 Diesel engines. Those particular engines have a reputation for timing chain problems, which is quite unusual for any modern car. If the chain wears badly on those engines (and they apparently do) it can also trash the crankshaft because the chain runs off the back of the engine and there is no separate drive sprocket. They also have extended oil change intervals. Over here it costs the equivalent of around $6000 to fit a new crank and possibly more to fix other likely damage if the chain lets go. This would probably put the cars beyond economic repair.

I've advised them to consider early oil changes as engine insurance and never to go over the mileage.

We had a fellow on another automotive forum some twelve years ago hawking a brand of motor oil he represented as an MLM dealer who claimed it NEVER needed changing. "Only change the filter and top off the oil", was his claim. Now back as late as the early thirties that could be done successfully on high-mileage vehicles where the heat boiled off liquid contaminants and the filters could trap the big chunks.

One engineering professor of the era swore by this technique, because in essence, your oil got better the more it was subjected to heat and filtration . . . which is probably more a commentary on the miserable state of the product in those days than the no-change technique. Dad proved it on the highway as the supervisor of a large electrical utility district in Western Kansas. It wasn't unusual to drive his fleet car 60-70,000 miles a year without a full change of oil.

But there were several circumstances then that allowed that. First oil back then was just a lubricant - no additives. Second, engines of the day were lowly-stressed, and made few demands on the lubrication system. Third, ordinary cars of the era didn't last that long anyway, wearing out an engine was unlikely because something else major fell apart long before the motor. Trying that stunt with a high-detergent SAE certified lubricant in a modern high-compression engine was mechanical suicide.

Our oil dealer friend insisted HIS employer's product was different, in fact they not only endorsed never changing the oil, his company would permanently warranty the engine against lubrication failure. Fast forward a year or so, and we'd had an earful of this "permanent" motor oil. No one on the forum believed it for an instant, and privately everyone was laughing at him. Then one day at around 24,000 miles, his engine seized. Ruh-roh.

His car was a Lexus RX300 - that in the first and second model years of production (1999-2000) had undersized oil galleries in the head that could sludge up with cheap oil and long change intervals. The solution was to run synthetic oil and change it every 5K miles (as recommended by the oil companies at the time). Those of us who were reasonably careful never experienced the slightest sludging - By 2002, the head was redesigned and engines from that model year onward never had a problem with the Toyota-designed V6.

Naturally, Oil Boy went to his Lexus dealer, screaming for warranty replacement when the motor ran all its bearings and locked up. They pulled his file (they do keep meticulous service records and provided all service free for the first 2 years), and there was NO record of an oil change. They pulled oil samples and checked the drain plug and filter. Whaddya know? The oil had never been changed - except to replace the break-in oil at 5,000 miles with his own "moose milk". Lexus shrugged and apologized, but they couldn't help him. So then he went pounding on the door of the MLM oil company to get them to honor the warranty they offered. As you might expect they said, "What warranty?"

Lexus did offer to replace his engine at minimal cost, if he would buy the part. The 1MZ-FE engine, voted one of Ward's 10 Best, was a little expensive, in the neighborhood of $14K for the crate motor. Oil Boy screamed bloody murder at the news, called everyone he dealt with unmentionable names, and retreated from the forum permanently. I recall one or two of his friends left behind remarked that he eventually had the dealer replace the engine . . . he was WAY upside down on the car and he couldn't afford to continue payments for something that just sat in his garage, immobile.

Moral: Gas or diesel, change your oil and perform ALL recommended service at the intervals indicated by the manufacturer . . . unless you don't want a warranty.

wheaters said:

I totally agree. However, I'm personally very reluctant to take any diesel of mine beyond the recommended oil change interval because I consider an extra oil change or two far cheaper than an engine rebuild. Two of my sons own BMWs fitted with 2.0 Diesel engines. Those particular engines have a reputation for timing chain problems, which is quite unusual for any modern car. If the chain wears badly on those engines (and they apparently do) it can also trash the crankshaft because the chain runs off the back of the engine and there is no separate drive sprocket. They also have extended oil change intervals. Over here it costs the equivalent of around $6000 to fit a new crank and possibly more to fix other likely damage if the chain lets go. This would probably put the cars beyond economic repair.

I've advised them to consider early oil changes as engine insurance and never to go over the mileage.

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I do early oil changes for the same reason but there were plenty of people on the forum who thought I was wasting precious oil. I consider it very cheap insurance.

Tangent> I have never been able to bring myself to buy a Synthetic Blend oil. They never state the percentage of synthetic. It it a teaspoonful or ??

wheaters said:

I don't worry about it, as long as it's a trusted brand. If I was racing, I might go fully synthetic.
But most of them sold over this side of the Atlantic these days are "part synthetic" so that's what I usually buy, other than for the BMW.

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While doing an industrial engineering project at Penzoil, I remember the expensive oil bottles whisking by to be filled and those were followed by Racetrack oil (gas station down south). The price difference at the time was that you could buy 4 or 5 quarts of Racetrack oil for the price of one quart of the premium oil. The difference? Color of the bottle and the color of the cap... that's all.

Oil stays pretty clean in all of our newer large Diesel engines. All oil and lube changes are governed by Oil samples. Todays Diesel is not the smokers of yesterday

Smitty901 said:

Oil stays pretty clean in all of our newer large Diesel engines. All oil and lube changes are governed by Oil samples. Todays Diesel is not the smokers of yesterday

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Yes but the fumes still trigger my wife's breathing problems which then require a shot that hopefully does the trick or it is a trip to the E.R.

Diesels sold in UK now have to have a DPF fitted so the exhaust gases are filtered, so what comes out the tailpipe is much cleaner than in previous years. Soot is still produced though, it's just dealt with better.