No, I'm confused why you would think I suggested that. I think EM opens itself up to well deserved scrutiny by EVERBODY. It's the other guys suggesting Elio Motors is being wrongfully scrutinized. Caddo Parrish, investors, reservationists, DOE, non-reservationists. and any anyone else impacted by or interested in Elio motors should scrutenize the hell out of Elio Motors. EM is asking for public financial support. Use the most powerful microscope known to mankind.
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Anyone Else Think It Wont Happen?
- Thread starter mumblemouth
- Start date
RUCRAYZE
Elio Addict
Sorry....EM is NOT"asking for public financial support"
John Painter
Elio Addict
You mean it's not all about Rainbow Ponies inside those Elio staff meetings, board meetings, negotiations with IRG, ATVM review, etc?
tonyspumoni
Elio Addict
Smitty,
They are a lot further along that dreaming. The Aptera was a dream; the Elio is $240M away from hardscrabble reality. Let us not disrespect or let go unacknowledged the positive gains they have made. Real suppliers? Yes. A workable and nearly finalized design? Yes. Initial funding for development? Yes. A good business plan? Yes. A flexible capitalization plan? Maybe but mostly yes. And so on.
I have the luxury of working in an environment where I get to see a lot of early business development ideas (I am not a businessperson per se but a technical specialist that gets involved in due diligence). While many of these are exciting and one or two transformative, I see a lot (A LOT) of whacky, half-baked stuff. The Elio is so much more real that it only seems less so because automotive innovation, such as it is, has characteristically been so expensive and hidebound that it could only happen from within existing organizations. Each existing organization desires only to EXPAND its market share at the expense of rivals, not destroy its market share to build markets where none existed. This has constrained automotive innovation to the point that it is governments that drive it now, primarily through CAFE-like rules designed either to promote safety or efficiency.
In this light the Elio is either a sure bet to happen as is or a sure bet to convince another manufacturer to do something similar. I could easily see, for example, one of the traditional motorcycle companies who doesn't make a three-wheeler, looking at this and thinking 'wow - those guys got surprisingly far'. Making an Elio-like three-wheeler wouldn't likely subvert their two-wheeler market but it would encroach on the car market that a motorcycle manufacturer doesn't currently access.
They are a lot further along that dreaming. The Aptera was a dream; the Elio is $240M away from hardscrabble reality. Let us not disrespect or let go unacknowledged the positive gains they have made. Real suppliers? Yes. A workable and nearly finalized design? Yes. Initial funding for development? Yes. A good business plan? Yes. A flexible capitalization plan? Maybe but mostly yes. And so on.
I have the luxury of working in an environment where I get to see a lot of early business development ideas (I am not a businessperson per se but a technical specialist that gets involved in due diligence). While many of these are exciting and one or two transformative, I see a lot (A LOT) of whacky, half-baked stuff. The Elio is so much more real that it only seems less so because automotive innovation, such as it is, has characteristically been so expensive and hidebound that it could only happen from within existing organizations. Each existing organization desires only to EXPAND its market share at the expense of rivals, not destroy its market share to build markets where none existed. This has constrained automotive innovation to the point that it is governments that drive it now, primarily through CAFE-like rules designed either to promote safety or efficiency.
In this light the Elio is either a sure bet to happen as is or a sure bet to convince another manufacturer to do something similar. I could easily see, for example, one of the traditional motorcycle companies who doesn't make a three-wheeler, looking at this and thinking 'wow - those guys got surprisingly far'. Making an Elio-like three-wheeler wouldn't likely subvert their two-wheeler market but it would encroach on the car market that a motorcycle manufacturer doesn't currently access.
Positive encouragement when it's not deseved encourages more of the same BS.
It's like an equation: BS x BS = BS squared. Postive results yields positive encouragement, Negative results a swift kick in the pants to get back on track and they are not on track to production, but rather on track to fundraising. I don't think positive criticism is discouraging but rather honest in Paul's face support.
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I' m wrong and apologize for making the public support statement. I thought The DOE ATVM Loan application process was asking for public support of tax payer dollars in hopes that it would be repaid with interest. I guess I meant to say Government support and not public support if/when the loan application is approved. I'm certain the DOE is scrutinizing EM to the max and I hope the loan is approved soon.
I also thought the Caddo Parrish support was public by using State and Local taxpayer funds to support and make available the manufacturing plant in an attempt to boost Shreveport's local economy.
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Smitty901
Elio Addict
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2014
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Ok so Elio never applied for the loan I was mistaken. Elio never put up the web sight with different levels of jumping in. Bad drugs I dreamed all of that.
Accountability is what gets things done. If Elio figures that out they may still have a chance.
WilliamH
Elio Addict
I think you are confusing the term "Loan" which Elio needs to get production going with the term "Bail Out" which GM and Chrysler got.
Also, the only reason I'm not in yet is because I just got hit with a routine (every 60K miles) $800 bill for cleaning injectors, cleaning throttle body, flushing transmission, and lube oil and filters on my F150 EcoBoost and Oh Yes that included about $350 for changing spark plugs.
I'll be very happy to have an Elio to make the 60 mile round trip to the grocery store and Post Office, or the 120 mile round trip to the local Walmart.
Not hammering you, but I'm sure if the loan came through tomorrow things would move a lot faster and Mr. Elio would be a lot happier.
Smitty901
Elio Addict
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2014
- Messages
- 1,311
- Reaction score
- 3,699
Elio has not shown the ability to mange money . What makes you think if the loan guarantee was granted tomorrow , and they set a worlds record lining up the cash they would not be broke again in no time. Happens a lot. Some people are dreamers and designers some are money managers. They need each other to make things happen.
I want to see ELIO win. That will only happen with some major changes at ELIO.
tonyspumoni
Elio Addict
Paul may be called a dreamer. The rest of his management team is assuredly not. Have a look. Those people are, by all accounts, very shrewd folks and shrewd folks don't like to see their investments go bad. The ATVM loan, by terms, must be used to fund ongoing operations. The only way that directly lines the pockets of current investors if if they get $480 million but only need $240, in which case they can pocket the $240M from OTHER investors and use the ATVM money for implementation of production. I read the ATVM loan terms, at least insofar as I could locate them (they are in the DoE's annual budget document), and this is very clear.