P4 Pictures

Stugotz said:

Hello Wheaters, I thought the Reliant video was funny and was being sarcastic when I linked to it. I know the rules have change since 1975, like any rule or regulation that is "set in stone" there may be a reasonable need to modify it when new ideas or solutions (ELIO) warrant a change. I did not mean to offend, hope I didn't, im sure there are some really good stories of couples tipping that thing over from the back seat.

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I wasn't at all offended. I once owned a Reliant three wheeler but I only bought it as a donor for parts to build my Liege. I had it delivered to the house but it was roadworthy and so I jokingly offered to pick up my sons from school in it. They said, "Dad, if we spot you parked up in it outside school, we won't be there!" I took the hint. I parked it on the driveway and took the doors off. As soon as this had been done, the local cats began using it as a toilet, which was as good an opinion as any!

However, back to the headlights issue. I'm afraid that the IVA rules here are cast in stone, at least to the extent that they certainly won't be changed to suit an individual manufacturer and in this case I can fully understand the reasoning behind the requirement for the wider headlight spacing. Many years ago (in the 1970s) I had a very scary experience on an unlit country road, approaching a bend whilst riding my motorcycle. A single headlight appeared, coming in the opposite direction. As there was only one light I presumed it was another bike and spaced myself on the narrow road accordingly. It was actually a large van with no lights on its offside which wasn't obvious almost until we were abeam, it was being driven very fast. As I was leaned into the bend there was little I could do at very short notice. I instinctively moved my head away and the van's wing mirror brushed the side of my helmet. Far too close for comfort; if I hadn't done that I doubt I'd be here today.

Also, I know of a number of car v. motorcycle accidents where car drivers have pulled out of side roads in front of motorcycles and caused serious accidents, including one caused by a female friend of mine. The car drivers said that they thought the bike was actually a car, but much further away, because it had two headlights, very close together. Some bikes in UK were wired so they had both headlights lit on dipped beam, now they seem to have changed the rules on this. Although not quite as extreme as this, the narrow spacing of the Elio headlights ought to be reconsidered because if the vehicle doesn't comply with the lighting regs, I don't see how they can legally sell them in UK. I hope this clarifies my reasoning.

The body (as well as headlight buckets) of a moving object must be extremely smooth to accomplish "laminar flow".

NASA gives this little description of laminar flow:
"Laminar flow, the smooth, uninterrupted flow of air over wings, reduces drag compared to turbulent flow. A natural laminar flow wing would increase fuel efficiency and reduce emissions.

Unfortunately laminar airflow is extremely difficult to accomplish, in part because of the exactness required in construction. Even the smallest of rivets in a wing can cause air to become turbulent."

That's why Howard Hughes invented "flush riveting" for his H-1 racing plane.
Those protruding headlights on the P3 break up the smooth flow of air along the body.

Also look at most newer, more streamlined cars- most have recessed headlights with clear plastic covers. We have a 1991 Toyota Previa with plastic headlight enclosures that are still quite clear.

So- the slicker the better.

Johnapool said:

Those protruding headlights on the P3 break up the smooth flow of air along the body.
.

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My professor used to recommend that an 'interrupting' protrusion such as headlights was best converted to an external aero-body and placed in excess of 12 inches from the main body, on an aerodynamic winglet. On the Elio, 12in would be just about right to get it out far enough to satisfy UK rules. Such a design can be made to have a neo-classic look.

And speaking of external protrusions, the motorcycle requirement for mirror size is different than cars. Since Elio is going with the car standard, once you get your Elio, you can legally convert back to the MC size. I kind of had that in mind for the attached image.

Johnapool said:

The body (as well as headlight buckets) of a moving object must be extremely smooth to accomplish "laminar flow".

NASA gives this little description of laminar flow:
"Laminar flow, the smooth, uninterrupted flow of air over wings, reduces drag compared to turbulent flow. A natural laminar flow wing would increase fuel efficiency and reduce emissions.

Unfortunately laminar airflow is extremely difficult to accomplish, in part because of the exactness required in construction. Even the smallest of rivets in a wing can cause air to become turbulent."

That's why Howard Hughes invented "flush riveting" for his H-1 racing plane.
Those protruding headlights on the P3 break up the smooth flow of air along the body.

Also look at most newer, more streamlined cars- most have recessed headlights with clear plastic covers. We have a 1991 Toyota Previa with plastic headlight enclosures that are still quite clear.

So- the slicker the better.

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John, thanks for the explanation. I've been a professional pilot since 1977, so I'm aware of aerodynamics to some extent. I used to teach the subject to RAF University Air Squadron students when I was a chief ground instructor.

But I'd rather have an Elio with a bit more drag up front than no Elio at all. Unfortunately, until I know the issue can be overcome for use in the UK I won't be putting a deposit down, much as I'd like to.

Any idea what headlights/socket the car will utilize H4 9003 halogen, HID?

John Painter said:

Any idea what headlights/socket the car will utilize H4 9003 halogen, HID?

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Not yet. It is a little too early for that kind of information. We will get more complete details later in the year. :-) Z

zelio said:

Not yet. It is a little too early for that kind of information. We will get more complete details later in the year. Z

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I, personally, hope that they can compromise just a-bit with the overall style and possibly make it easy to switch wheel configurations for city driving/hi way driving, (P3 to P5), and a little compromising with that rear end, (like the P3). Slight mods should have very little effect on MPG's.

Edward43 said:

I, personally, hope that they can compromise just a-bit with the overall style and possibly make it easy to switch wheel configurations for city driving/hi way driving, (P3 to P5), and a little compromising with that rear end, (like the P3). Slight mods should have very little effect on MPG's.

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The fully shrouded wheels actually make a pretty big difference on the highway however we have been told that the P3 style open fenders will be an option for those who want them. Changing out the front wheel fenders is very easy as they are only held in place by four screws.

The back end will not likely change a whole lot due to aerodynamic requirements needed to reach 80+ mpg on the highway however as an option the wheel cover will be available painted to match the body color and there will likely even be some different styles to choose from eventually as these are also not supposed to be all that difficult to replace.

goofyone said:

The fully shrouded wheels actually make a pretty big difference on the highway however we have been told that the P3 style open fenders will be an option for those who want them. Changing out the front wheel fenders is very easy as they are only held in place by four screws.

The back end will not likely change a whole lot due to aerodynamic requirements needed to reach 80+ mpg on the highway however as an option the wheel cover will be available painted to match the body color and there will likely even be some different styles to choose from eventually as these are also not supposed to be all that difficult to replace.

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That is exactly what I was hoping to hear. Thanks.

I found a post on ecomodder.com by a user named Neil Blanchard that had a link to some quality photos he took of the P4 at an event.
Here's a link to his album