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Polaris Slingshot

goofyone

goofyone

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drbob said:
my point is nothing real has happened with elio in the last 6 months....
Click to expand...

The P4 was released almost exactly six months ago. Since then I can think of several major things which have happened and I am sure there many more which I am not listing and/or happened behind the scenes at Elio Motors. After numerous delays, caused by lawsuits and plenty of outside interference, IRG was finally able to get a lease signed for the assembly plant in Shreveport which secures it for use by Elio Motors. The IAV engine has moved from CAD drawings and computer models to a fully cast and assembled engine ready for testing. The P4 went through its engineering assessment resulting in a number of design changes which will be incorporated into the P5. The P5 design and engineering process is running its course and the design is being finalized as we speak in advance of assembly starting in the August/September timeframe as confirmed by both Elio Motors and Technosports.

To me all the items I just listed sound like there has been a huge amount of progress on the Elio vehicle over the last six months. In that relatively short period of time they went from having completed an admittedly rough mule prototype to engineering a complete pre-production prototype vehicle and an actual pre-production version of the drivetrain.
 
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goofyone

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Here is the official information on the Polaris Slingshot:

http://www.polaris.com/en-us/slingshot

Looks like a lot of fun but definitely not an Elio competitor. This is pretty much aimed at the adult toys market and will likely really take a bite out of T-Rex sales. Base price is $19,999. It does have ABS, traction control, and an electronic stability control system however it is a permanently open top roadster with no air bags and no crumple zones. The motor requires premium gasoline to push its surprisingly heavy 1750 lbs weight and while it has 175hp it has to put all that power down through one rear tire which if you read the first reviews means it really has too much power which is mostly wasted as you can easily spin the tires through the first three gears. I am sure the fuel mileage is also horrendous compared to the Elio but fuel mileage mileage is obviously not what this vehicle was designed for.
 
Jeff Miller

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I agree that the elio and the slingshot are really different machines. There could be some fallout from impatient elio owners or elio owners that really want a sports vehicle instead of a commuter but for the most part they serve different markets.

So my biggest concern is what impact will slingshots and other trikes that aren't as fully enclosed and car like as the elio have on autocycle legislation and insurance?

Autocycle considerations:

We are witnessing the current legal churn in various states regarding reclassification of three wheeled vehicles. I think it will be very difficult to be able to write legislation that would result in the elio being classified as an autocycle while at the same time excluding things like the slingshot. For example, if you make the elio a convertible what would the verbiage of the law need to be to enable the convertible elio to remain classified as an autocycle and the slingshot not an autocycle?

I think there is currently an intent to not include motorcycle sidecar rigs and the traditional motorcycle trikes in the autocycle classification. The CanAM style three wheeler seems to be also left in the motorcycle classification largely because of its seating and handlebar steering. I think this is important as those vehicles require more skill and training in order to be able to operate them safely. Three wheeled tadpole trike vehicles like the slingshot and the elio are going to handle different from the four wheel cars people are familiar with and I really think it would be good if drivers got additional training before driving off in them. Perhaps this might become a licensing requirement of autocycles but I doubt it.

Looking at the slingshot and the elio I really believe they could and likely will both fall into the autocycle classification. Will this cause issues that will delay the writing of such legislation? More importantly, will having snarling performance oriented gas gobbling toys like the slingshot being lumped in with commuter green cars like elio result in fewer benefits for the elio? Time will tell but ultimately I'm concerned that the performance oriented trikes will have a deleterious impact on some of the autocycle benefits we are hoping for with the elio.

Insurance considerations:

The slingshot looks to me like an accident waiting to happen. Polaris is marketing it as an adrenaline machine so it is likely to attract people that will push it to its limits. Factor in the 175 hp to the rear wheel and the reality that even with stability and other controls I bet this thing dances all over when you put your foot down. If not on dry surfaces it surely will create some soiled shorts on wet and gravel roads.

The slingshot is significantly more expensive than the elio but it is also significantly less than a high performance sports car. I have seen people with too much money and not enough sense by a 400+ hp car and assume that since they have been driving cars forever that there is nothing different about driving a beast of a sports car. Wrong! Those are the people that lose control accelerating, braking, and just plain not being able to judge the kind of hurt such a machine can put you in. The slingshot makes that kind of "stupid power" available to a wider audience so look for more stupid power accidents from people driving these things beyond their capabilities. (btw: "stupid power" is having so much power it makes you do stupid things such as over driving your brakes, spinning out, or just going too fast).

So how all this gets back to insurance and the elio is that insurance companies are still trying to figure out how determine rates for an elio. My concern is that insurance companies might lump all three wheeled vehicles into a similar class, especially if things like the slingshot and elio both get classified as an autocycle. If the slingshot and its ilk create the risky behavior, accident statistics, and repair costs that I think they will they will provide measurable statistics for insurance companies to set rates for "autocycles" in general and that in turn could be really bad for elio.
 
O

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Jeff Miller said:
I agree that the elio and the slingshot are really different machines. There could be some fallout from impatient elio owners or elio owners that really want a sports vehicle instead of a commuter but for the most part they serve different markets.

So my biggest concern is what impact will slingshots and other trikes that aren't as fully enclosed and car like as the elio have on autocycle legislation and insurance?

Autocycle considerations:

We are witnessing the current legal churn in various states regarding reclassification of three wheeled vehicles. I think it will be very difficult to be able to write legislation that would result in the elio being classified as an autocycle while at the same time excluding things like the slingshot. For example, if you make the elio a convertible what would the verbiage of the law need to be to enable the convertible elio to remain classified as an autocycle and the slingshot not an autocycle?

I think there is currently an intent to not include motorcycle sidecar rigs and the traditional motorcycle trikes in the autocycle classification. The CanAM style three wheeler seems to be also left in the motorcycle classification largely because of its seating and handlebar steering. I think this is important as those vehicles require more skill and training in order to be able to operate them safely. Three wheeled tadpole trike vehicles like the slingshot and the elio are going to handle different from the four wheel cars people are familiar with and I really think it would be good if drivers got additional training before driving off in them. Perhaps this might become a licensing requirement of autocycles but I doubt it.

Looking at the slingshot and the elio I really believe they could and likely will both fall into the autocycle classification. Will this cause issues that will delay the writing of such legislation? More importantly, will having snarling performance oriented gas gobbling toys like the slingshot being lumped in with commuter green cars like elio result in fewer benefits for the elio? Time will tell but ultimately I'm concerned that the performance oriented trikes will have a deleterious impact on some of the autocycle benefits we are hoping for with the elio.

Insurance considerations:

The slingshot looks to me like an accident waiting to happen. Polaris is marketing it as an adrenaline machine so it is likely to attract people that will push it to its limits. Factor in the 175 hp to the rear wheel and the reality that even with stability and other controls I bet this thing dances all over when you put your foot down. If not on dry surfaces it surely will create some soiled shorts on wet and gravel roads.

The slingshot is significantly more expensive than the elio but it is also significantly less than a high performance sports car. I have seen people with too much money and not enough sense by a 400+ hp car and assume that since they have been driving cars forever that there is nothing different about driving a beast of a sports car. Wrong! Those are the people that lose control accelerating, braking, and just plain not being able to judge the kind of hurt such a machine can put you in. The slingshot makes that kind of "stupid power" available to a wider audience so look for more stupid power accidents from people driving these things beyond their capabilities. (btw: "stupid power" is having so much power it makes you do stupid things such as over driving your brakes, spinning out, or just going too fast).

So how all this gets back to insurance and the elio is that insurance companies are still trying to figure out how determine rates for an elio. My concern is that insurance companies might lump all three wheeled vehicles into a similar class, especially if things like the slingshot and elio both get classified as an autocycle. If the slingshot and its ilk create the risky behavior, accident statistics, and repair costs that I think they will they will provide measurable statistics for insurance companies to set rates for "autocycles" in general and that in turn could be really bad for elio.
Click to expand...

I sure hope you are wrong about the "Slingshot" being classified the same as the Elio. Here is why I think that it WON'T. EM has been working on legislation to require crash testing for the Elio. This alone should separate it from the others. One look at the Slingshot tells me that there is NO WAY Polaris would want crash testing, or even allow it to happen!

Insurance companies, (like most "for profit" companies) walk a fine line. If they charge premiums that are too high, other IC's
with "reasonable rates" get your business, AND probably will cover ALL of your vehicles, and maybe your home, too!
 
BlioKart

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I was looking at this again from the now available pictures. How long before someone just adds another wheel? I like it alot but its priced way to far for me. Maybe if I won to lotto then i would pay up the 25K for one.
 
Terrence

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Looks like another three wheeler for speed and not a daily work commuter with high mpg. That Sling shot in no way would sway me from the/my Elio Auto Cycle. We that have a $1,000.00 in orthose with a reservation in on the Elio know what we want; 84 mpg, enclosed, safety, Ac, daily transportation, reliability,body, motor and trans engineered for mpg.
Terrence
 
Terrence

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Jeff Miller said:
I agree that the elio and the slingshot are really different machines. There could be some fallout from impatient elio owners or elio owners that really want a sports vehicle instead of a commuter but for the most part they serve different markets.

So my biggest concern is what impact will slingshots and other trikes that aren't as fully enclosed and car like as the elio have on autocycle legislation and insurance?

Autocycle considerations:

We are witnessing the current legal churn in various states regarding reclassification of three wheeled vehicles. I think it will be very difficult to be able to write legislation that would result in the elio being classified as an autocycle while at the same time excluding things like the slingshot. For example, if you make the elio a convertible what would the verbiage of the law need to be to enable the convertible elio to remain classified as an autocycle and the slingshot not an autocycle?

I think there is currently an intent to not include motorcycle sidecar rigs and the traditional motorcycle trikes in the autocycle classification. The CanAM style three wheeler seems to be also left in the motorcycle classification largely because of its seating and handlebar steering. I think this is important as those vehicles require more skill and training in order to be able to operate them safely. Three wheeled tadpole trike vehicles like the slingshot and the elio are going to handle different from the four wheel cars people are familiar with and I really think it would be good if drivers got additional training before driving off in them. Perhaps this might become a licensing requirement of autocycles but I doubt it.

Looking at the slingshot and the elio I really believe they could and likely will both fall into the autocycle classification. Will this cause issues that will delay the writing of such legislation? More importantly, will having snarling performance oriented gas gobbling toys like the slingshot being lumped in with commuter green cars like elio result in fewer benefits for the elio? Time will tell but ultimately I'm concerned that the performance oriented trikes will have a deleterious impact on some of the autocycle benefits we are hoping for with the elio.

Insurance considerations:

The slingshot looks to me like an accident waiting to happen. Polaris is marketing it as an adrenaline machine so it is likely to attract people that will push it to its limits. Factor in the 175 hp to the rear wheel and the reality that even with stability and other controls I bet this thing dances all over when you put your foot down. If not on dry surfaces it surely will create some soiled shorts on wet and gravel roads.

The slingshot is significantly more expensive than the elio but it is also significantly less than a high performance sports car. I have seen people with too much money and not enough sense by a 400+ hp car and assume that since they have been driving cars forever that there is nothing different about driving a beast of a sports car. Wrong! Those are the people that lose control accelerating, braking, and just plain not being able to judge the kind of hurt such a machine can put you in. The slingshot makes that kind of "stupid power" available to a wider audience so look for more stupid power accidents from people driving these things beyond their capabilities. (btw: "stupid power" is having so much power it makes you do stupid things such as over driving your brakes, spinning out, or just going too fast).

So how all this gets back to insurance and the elio is that insurance companies are still trying to figure out how determine rates for an elio. My concern is that insurance companies might lump all three wheeled vehicles into a similar class, especially if things like the slingshot and elio both get classified as an autocycle. If the slingshot and its ilk create the risky behavior, accident statistics, and repair costs that I think they will they will provide measurable statistics for insurance companies to set rates for "autocycles" in general and that in turn could be really bad for elio.
Click to expand...
Jeff Miller said:
I agree that the elio and the slingshot are really different machines. There could be some fallout from impatient elio owners or elio owners that really want a sports vehicle instead of a commuter but for the most part they serve different markets.

So my biggest concern is what impact will slingshots and other trikes that aren't as fully enclosed and car like as the elio have on autocycle legislation and insurance?

Autocycle considerations:

We are witnessing the current legal churn in various states regarding reclassification of three wheeled vehicles. I think it will be very difficult to be able to write legislation that would result in the elio being classified as an autocycle while at the same time excluding things like the slingshot. For example, if you make the elio a convertible what would the verbiage of the law need to be to enable the convertible elio to remain classified as an autocycle and the slingshot not an autocycle?

I think there is currently an intent to not include motorcycle sidecar rigs and the traditional motorcycle trikes in the autocycle classification. The CanAM style three wheeler seems to be also left in the motorcycle classification largely because of its seating and handlebar steering. I think this is important as those vehicles require more skill and training in order to be able to operate them safely. Three wheeled tadpole trike vehicles like the slingshot and the elio are going to handle different from the four wheel cars people are familiar with and I really think it would be good if drivers got additional training before driving off in them. Perhaps this might become a licensing requirement of autocycles but I doubt it.

Looking at the slingshot and the elio I really believe they could and likely will both fall into the autocycle classification. Will this cause issues that will delay the writing of such legislation? More importantly, will having snarling performance oriented gas gobbling toys like the slingshot being lumped in with commuter green cars like elio result in fewer benefits for the elio? Time will tell but ultimately I'm concerned that the performance oriented trikes will have a deleterious impact on some of the autocycle benefits we are hoping for with the elio.

Insurance considerations:

The slingshot looks to me like an accident waiting to happen. Polaris is marketing it as an adrenaline machine so it is likely to attract people that will push it to its limits. Factor in the 175 hp to the rear wheel and the reality that even with stability and other controls I bet this thing dances all over when you put your foot down. If not on dry surfaces it surely will create some soiled shorts on wet and gravel roads.

The slingshot is significantly more expensive than the elio but it is also significantly less than a high performance sports car. I have seen people with too much money and not enough sense by a 400+ hp car and assume that since they have been driving cars forever that there is nothing different about driving a beast of a sports car. Wrong! Those are the people that lose control accelerating, braking, and just plain not being able to judge the kind of hurt such a machine can put you in. The slingshot makes that kind of "stupid power" available to a wider audience so look for more stupid power accidents from people driving these things beyond their capabilities. (btw: "stupid power" is having so much power it makes you do stupid things such as over driving your brakes, spinning out, or just going too fast).

So how all this gets back to insurance and the elio is that insurance companies are still trying to figure out how determine rates for an elio. My concern is that insurance companies might lump all three wheeled vehicles into a similar class, especially if things like the slingshot and elio both get classified as an autocycle. If the slingshot and its ilk create the risky behavior, accident statistics, and repair costs that I think they will they will provide measurable statistics for insurance companies to set rates for "autocycles" in general and that in turn could be really bad for elio.
Click to expand...

I feel comfortable that insurance companies would use motor displacement criteria to classify Auto cycle types. A 225 hp compared to a 55 hp. That 225 hp would be a red flag on there rate and category charts. Also the name slingshot, to me and others that denotes speed, insurance companies already have two wheel crotch rockets models now as red flags when you tell them the model letters (anohter red flag for insurance companies. Try to insurance a two wheel motorcycle ending in the letters RR. That denotes speed and highter insurance.
The Elio auto cycle has a lot going for it regarding its design, its componets and its purpose straight out in marketing already. To get you to work.
Terrence
 
CheeseheadEarl

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Terrence said:
I feel comfortable that insurance companies would use motor displacement criteria to classify Auto cycle types. A 225 hp compared to a 55 hp. That 225 hp would be a red flag on there rate and category charts. Also the name slingshot, to me and others that denotes speed, insurance companies already have two wheel crotch rockets models now as red flags when you tell them the model letters (anohter red flag for insurance companies. Try to insurance a two wheel motorcycle ending in the letters RR. That denotes speed and highter insurance.
The Elio auto cycle has a lot going for it regarding its design, its componets and its purpose straight out in marketing already. To get you to work.
Terrence
Click to expand...
They have nearly the same displacement.
 
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