Possible Scam?

Elio Amazed said:

<snip>
Keeping in mind this pitch was probably being used on the layman and the well-informed alike...
I'm not completely right with a professional using a pitch that requires industry knowledge to discipher.
And a pitch that if simply and reasonably taken at face value is considered to be "misunderstood".<snip>

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I can see where this is frustrating, but let me offer it from a different perspective.

By it's very nature, a pitch for private placement is complicated enough that it DOES and MUST require industry knowledge to decipher. That's one of the bigger reasons an individual must be an Accredited Investor to invest - an AI is considered to be a "sophisticated investor" who either understands the terms of the investment or who can pay for the services and advice of people who do. Private placement is NOT for folks who can't do one or the other.

The pitch wasn't really used on both layman and the well-informed - the pitch was designed to sort out Accredited Investors from non-accredited, and for the non-accredited, the pitch essentially stopped there. Oh, he may have continued talking, but there wasn't going to be any business conducted.

The SEC expects that non-accredited investors WILL misunderstand the language of the industry and the nature of the investment - no matter what the pitch - that's why the safeguards are built in to prevent non-accredited investors from buying in under any circumstances. If I suddenly got invited to a symposium of nuclear physicists, I wouldn't understand a damn thing they were saying either, because nothing in my experience or expertise would have prepared me to understand. Same thing at work here.

An Accredited Investor is already going to know the potential downside of the investment - all can be lost - so there is no reason for the broker to bring that up at all. The AI, though, will want to know the potential upside and that is what the broker will gladly speak to. I'm sure the pitch I heard was very nearly identical to the one you heard (it was likely well-planned and rehearsed <lol>) and I didn't come away thinking that anything said was illegal, immoral or dishonest. Optimistic, for sure, but optimism constrained by the boundaries of the possible, not speculation of things that could never happen.

This was likely the first cold-call of this type that many folks have ever received - hopefully, this thread will give a little bit of insight into how the process works so folks can listen and discriminate a little more the next time.

I get the fact that you're trying to say that I've "misunderstood" what the man said.
I do understand that it's essentially a non-issue. Doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
It's simply my own personal feeling that comes from my belief of what good ethics are.

It doesn't take industry knowledge to tell the difference between the wording.
Such as the difference between "Is going to" and "may" or "is planning on".
The rest of the "updates" were similarly worded but represented as hard fact.

These were simple statements.
They were carefully scripted as to not run afoul of the law.

According to what you're saying, this is the SOP of the industry.
It still sounds like an excuse to put a label of "optomism" on something else.

It reminds me of all those who exclude, and spin, facts to support their position.
No matter the subject, you can always find a study that will support what you want to believe.

Understand that I'm not misunderstanding anything at this point.
Rest assured that I'm thankfully quite clear on everything that's been said here.
And I still find this type of behavior offensive, no matter what excuse is given for it.

If you choose to accept the industry SOP and it doesn't offend you, that's your choice.
I'm certainly not going to try to convince you that you've misunderstood the issue.

I am taken back that I haven't receive the phone call. I paid my farm off in less than 9 years. WOW, in my circle that is a IA, lol. But, with this conversation I am prepared. I got my cell phone sitting next to my land line. I've practiced how to get the voice recorder on it to work quickly. I won't come out right away that I am not rolling in money, just try to get more information or verification on what 'my friend here' reported. I love this conversation - thread, I've learned so much from all of you. But, the calls seem to have stopped September 30th as predicted. That phase of that fund raiser is done. I hope it wasn't a disappointment. I learn along time ago, to listen very carefully to double talk, then ask question to fellows like you guys. Thank you.
What we might have learned : Production date might be my husbands birthday not next Christmas. We will hear from the SEC by Halloween (4 weeks) and the DOE soon after that. I am happy with all that. As long as what we hear is what we want to hear, this project is a go and we all are going to be so much happier. Good Morning.

Mornin' Lilly.

Elio Amazed said:

I get the fact that you're trying to say that I've "misunderstood" what the man said.
I do understand that it's essentially a non-issue. Doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
It's simply my own personal feeling that comes from my belief of what good ethics are.

It doesn't take industry knowledge to tell the difference between the wording.
Such as the difference between "Is going to" and "may" or "is planning on".
The rest of the "updates" were similarly worded but represented as hard fact.

These were simple statements.
They were carefully scripted as to not run afoul of the law.

According to what you're saying, this is the SOP of the industry.
It still sounds like an excuse to put a label of "optomism" on something else.

It reminds me of all those who exclude, and spin, facts to support their position.
No matter the subject, you can always find a study that will support what you want to believe.

Understand that I'm not misunderstanding anything at this point.
Rest assured that I'm thankfully quite clear on everything that's been said here.
And I still find this type of behavior offensive, no matter what excuse is given for it.

If you choose to accept the industry SOP and it doesn't offend you, that's your choice.
I'm certainly not going to try to convince you that you've misunderstood the issue.

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This isn't an attempt to escalate because it truly has been (and I expect will continue to be) on friendly terms. I'd like to add one clarification, though.

I didn't say the pitch was carefully scripted to not run afoul of the law, or that it was SOP for the industry. I wrote "I didn't come away thinking that anything said was illegal, immoral or dishonest. Optimistic, for sure, but optimism constrained by the boundaries of the possible, not speculation of things that could never happen." Said another way, I considered everything I heard to be legal, moral, honest and optimistic within reason - and that pretty much defines ethics for me, at least. Spin? No salesman in his right mind would waste his time to call you and say "I've got a real crappy investment/car/TV/anything I'd like you to buy". We only hear the positive pitches.

Remember, everything that was said can be fact checked against the Private Placement Memorandum (Prospectus) that he would have offered to anyone who declared they could be vetted as an Accredited Investor. It does a broker absolutely no good to feed you a line of BS, only to have his efforts submarined by a simple fact check in the documents that he is required by law to deliver before you can invest.

It is always amazing to me the depth, knowledge and experiences that folks have here in different specialities. I continue to smile over the automotive/mechanical folks, when they can fill threads on what's in a EM picture, the group that discuss aeronautics, business/lawyer stuff, history buffs,
and of course who I'm most envious -people with long term memories!! I thought eating "brain food" and doing puzzles would carry me to my end, but I think
I got it wrong.

My "Doc" gave me a RX for smart pills. I told him they looked like rabbit droppings, he told me "See, you are getting smarter already".

Willie
Sorry, couldn't resist.

RUCRAYZE said:

It is always amazing to me the depth, knowledge and experiences that folks have here in different specialities. I continue to smile over the automotive/mechanical folks, when they can fill threads on what's in a EM picture, the group that discuss aeronautics, business/lawyer stuff, history buffs,
and of course who I'm most envious -people with long term memories!! I thought eating "brain food" and doing puzzles would carry me to my end, but I think
I got it wrong.

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I mostly appreciate what the comedians have to offer up and I seem to recall a recipe thread.

Exactly! you recall... me I forget!!
i was a contributor to the recipe thread too. Being Vegan, I was constantly jibing the fried bacon with mayo group.

RUCRAYZE said:

Exactly! you recall... me I forget!!
i was a contributor to the recipe thread too. Being Vegan, I was constantly jibing the fried bacon with mayo group.

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Wait.... there are people out who eat fried mayo?

Gross.